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-   -   Federal HST 230gr: +P and standard pressure (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1444363)

ABNAK 09-23-2012 07:40

Federal HST 230gr: +P and standard pressure
 
Noticed something interesting while breaking in my Kahr CW45. Was trying to use a variety of different ammo and two of those used were the HST in +P and standard pressure. In the course of reloading mags I noticed that the standard pressure ones had skivves cut all the way to the case mouth; on the +P's the skivves were NOT cut all the way down. Leads me to believe that they are different bullets, one for each pressure level.

This is different from the 9mm HST "heavy" 147gr ammo. The 147gr HST has skivves cut all the way down to the case mouth on both the +P and standard pressure rounds, leading me to believe they are the same bullet.

Now obviously the .40 does not have a legit +P rating so there is no comparison to be made, but the 180gr HST's also have the skivves cut all the way down to the case mouth.

So, I wonder why the .45 departs from the "norm" for heavy HST loads with the +P?

Tiro Fijo 09-23-2012 14:33

Hydraulics & velocity I'd imagine. Since the .45 cal. has a wider HP cavity then it only goes to say that it probably needs less "assistance" via the skives at a higher velocity. As an example, the old Speer 200 gr. "Flying Ashtray" opened up very well at over 1,000 fps. Under that & it didn't. Of course, that was before the technology of today.

ABNAK 09-23-2012 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiro Fijo (Post 19449026)
Hydraulics & velocity I'd imagine. Since the .45 cal. has a wider HP cavity then it only goes to say that it probably needs less "assistance" via the skives at a higher velocity. As an example, the old Speer 200 gr. "Flying Ashtray" opened up very well at over 1,000 fps. Under that & it didn't. Of course, that was before the technology of today.


Yeah, I've heard the "flying ashtray" was overrated as it didn't always expand like you would think by looking at it's gaping HP cavity. That wasn't a Gold Dot, was it?

Tiro Fijo 09-23-2012 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABNAK (Post 19449287)
...That wasn't a Gold Dot, was it?


No, it was not. It was an old style cup based HP loaded back when their Lawman series included loaded HP ammo.

triggerjerk 09-27-2012 15:11

I don't see any difference.

Below is HST .45+P on left, standard pressure on right.
Pic is crappy but you can see where the flash picked up the bottom of the skives.
If anything the +P appears to have shorter skives.
http://imageshack.us/a/img441/7870/hstskives.jpg

The pic is a little deceiving. To the naked eye there really is no difference.

Kalmah 09-27-2012 16:11

Glad to see your CW45 likes HSTs. Mine doesn't. It has no problem with any other JHP I've tried, but I get the occasional FTF with HST.

As far as your observation goes, I've noticed that too. The standard pressure has longer skives than the +P. If you're wondering why, you could always ask Federal.

SCmasterblaster 09-27-2012 18:04

I use a +p+ 9mm round in my G17. I wonder if there is a +p+ .45 load out there anywhere?

ABNAK 09-27-2012 21:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by triggerjerk (Post 19461852)
I don't see any difference.

Below is HST .45+P on left, standard pressure on right.
Pic is crappy but you can see where the flash picked up the bottom of the skives.
If anything the +P appears to have shorter skives.
http://imageshack.us/a/img441/7870/hstskives.jpg

The pic is a little deceiving. To the naked eye there really is no difference.


That's what I was saying.

ABNAK 09-27-2012 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalmah (Post 19462047)
Glad to see your CW45 likes HSTs. Mine doesn't. It has no problem with any other JHP I've tried, but I get the occasional FTF with HST.

As far as your observation goes, I've noticed that too. The standard pressure has longer skives than the +P. If you're wondering why, you could always ask Federal.

I'd like to have a good point of contact to do just that! In fact, I'd like to know the low-end velocity/expansion threshhold's of a few of the HST rounds.

triggerjerk 09-28-2012 07:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABNAK (Post 19462921)
That's what I was saying.

Right, sorry for the ramble. What I meant was that none of the +P I have went all the way to the case mouth. And after going over a few boxes there really was no consistent length to the skives of either pressure round.

SCmasterblaster 09-28-2012 10:03

I'd use the +p .45 for sure.

ABNAK 09-28-2012 14:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by triggerjerk (Post 19463800)
Right, sorry for the ramble. What I meant was that none of the +P I have went all the way to the case mouth. And after going over a few boxes there really was no consistent length to the skives of either pressure round.


How long ago did you get the ammo? Mine is pretty consistent as far as where the cuts end. Bought it within the last 18 months or so.

SCmasterblaster 09-28-2012 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABNAK (Post 19449287)
Yeah, I've heard the "flying ashtray" was overrated as it didn't always expand like you would think by looking at it's gaping HP cavity. That wasn't a Gold Dot, was it?

The Speer flying ashtray .45 ACP was over-rated because of the slow velocities that the short .45 ACP case could deliver. :dunno:

tacticalG23 09-29-2012 12:33

Curious as to if you measured the OAL and confirmed them to be the same, perhaps the standard pressure is set back a tiny bit further?

SCmasterblaster 10-01-2012 09:41

The .45 ACP has a 100-year record as a manstopper. I guess that the .45 ACP +p rounds are even better.

triggerjerk 10-01-2012 15:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABNAK (Post 19465202)
How long ago did you get the ammo? Mine is pretty consistent as far as where the cuts end. Bought it within the last 18 months or so.

About that same age range. The standard pressure has a newer label on it though.

SCmasterblaster 10-01-2012 16:21

I guess that no-one knows if there is a +p+ .45ACP load. They are offered by several companies in 9mmP, so I was wondering about .45 ACP.

ABNAK 10-01-2012 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster (Post 19475131)
I guess that no-one knows if there is a +p+ .45ACP load. They are offered by several companies in 9mmP, so I was wondering about .45 ACP.

Never heard of one. Now perhaps one of the boutique ammo makers bills one as +P+ but as AFAIK there is no such SAAMI designation.

Georgia Arms is good for that, at least with "+P" .40 loads.

SCmasterblaster 10-02-2012 10:33

Well
 
I guess that they don't exist. :dunno:


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