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-   -   FMJ for Self Defense? (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1436259)

Glock19Fan 08-06-2012 14:33

FMJ for Self Defense?
 
If you had to use FMJ and was forced to pick between 9mm and .45, what would you choose? From a Glock 19 and 5 inch barreled 1911. .45ACP on top and 9mm on bottom. Both WWB from 5 feet, and direction of travel was from the right.

http://i50.tinypic.com/jua58j.jpg

I use Gold Dots, I just thought it would be interesting to show this test.

Kentguy 08-06-2012 15:47

I'd go with the 9mm... Come on you guys... don't be a hater :supergrin:

My CCW is a G26 and in my night-stand is a G19, I like that caliber and I am very fimiliar with how it will work coming out of my pistols.

As far as FMJ is concerned, it would not be my round of choice in a self defense situation, however it will get the job done if pressed into service. :thumbsup:

Alan

M 7 08-06-2012 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glock19Fan (Post 19278012)
If you had to use FMJ and was forced to pick between 9mm and .45, what would you choose? From a Glock 19 and 5 inch barreled 1911. .45ACP on top and 9mm on bottom. Both WWB from 5 feet, and direction of travel was from the right.

http://i50.tinypic.com/jua58j.jpg

I use Gold Dots, I just thought it would be interesting to show this test.

G19Fan,

Where'd you find that test? Do you have a link for it?

As for your question, both 9mm and .45 FMJs will pass through a person or three and the pointed profile of the FMJ guarantees that either will slip through soft tissue with a minimum of damage.

According to the Schwartz bullet penetration model www.quantitativeammunitionselection.com , a 9mm 115 gr. JHP moving at 1155 fps will penetrate 26.3" of soft tissue and a .45 230 gr. FMJ moving at 835 fps will penetrate 25.1" of soft tissue.

For whatever slim margin it might have, I'll take the .45, thank you very much. ;)

NEOH212 08-06-2012 16:09

In a pinch/emergency when nothing else was available fmj is fine.

However, when I have a choice in the matter, I will always carry a good jhp over any fmj.

APERS 08-06-2012 16:34

If FMJ is my only choice in .45 or 9mm.. would have to pick .45. Heavier bullets will break through bone and hide better on some of the 4 legged bad guys that rome freely out here in fly over country.

Glock19Fan 08-06-2012 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by M 7 (Post 19278268)
G19Fan,

Where'd you find that test? Do you have a link for it?


For whatever slim margin it might have, I'll take the .45, thank you very much. ;)

This was my own test. Both bullets fully penetrated the 17 inches of gelatin, with the .45ACP penetrating 2 water jugs compared to the 9mm being stopped in the first.

The 9mm bullet yawed roughly 6 inches into the path and exited base first.

Glock19Fan 08-06-2012 16:53

Am I the only one who thinks the 9mm clearly outperformed the .45?

M 7 08-06-2012 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glock19Fan (Post 19278434)
This was my own test. Both bullets fully penetrated the 17 inches of gelatin, with the .45ACP penetrating 2 water jugs compared to the 9mm being stopped in the first.

The 9mm bullet yawed roughly 6 inches into the path and exited base first.

Thanks.

As for which fmj out-performed the other, you'll have to define the criteria by which they're being judged.

Is it strictly penetration? The amount of damage done in the first 12" of penetration? The one that penetrated the most? A combination of all three or something else entirely?

Armchair Commando 08-06-2012 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glock19Fan (Post 19278012)
If you had to use FMJ and was forced to pick between 9mm and .45, what would you choose? From a Glock 19 and 5 inch barreled 1911. .45ACP on top and 9mm on bottom. Both WWB from 5 feet, and direction of travel was from the right.

http://i50.tinypic.com/jua58j.jpg

I use Gold Dots, I just thought it would be interesting to show this test.

9mm all day any day. Lighter recoil makes it much more controllable and much easier to shoot accurately under duress, Much more ammo capacity which is good since. criminals commit crimes in groups more than they do alone. Id rather have 15+1 9mm when facing 3 robbers then 8+1 45acp.
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Adamz04 08-06-2012 17:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glock19Fan (Post 19278439)
Am I the only one who thinks the 9mm clearly outperformed the .45?

No, I would agree by the photo that the 9mm did perform better in the first 12 inches. I've never been a 45 guy. I don't have any use for them.

Glock19Fan 08-06-2012 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by M 7 (Post 19278518)
Thanks.

As for which fmj out-performed the other, you'll have to define the criteria by which they're being judged.

Is it strictly penetration? The amount of damage done in the first 12" of penetration? The one that penetrated the most? A combination of all three or something else entirely?

I am basing it off what is shown in the picture. Based off the picture alone, I would say the 9mm did more damage overall.

cowboy1964 08-06-2012 18:27

The markings you see in the gel outside the width of the projectile is the temporary cavity. It is caused by the higher velocity of the 9mm and is basically meaningless.

In FMJ you want the largest caliber possible since it's still going to be pretty small. Seriously? People here argue about 9mm Gold Dots "only" expanding to .6" and someone wants to know which is better, .355" or .45"?

M 7 08-06-2012 18:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowboy1964 (Post 19278779)
The markings you see in the gel outside the width of the projectile is the temporary cavity. It is caused by the higher velocity of the 9mm and is basically meaningless.

Good point, cowboy. Lotta folks seem to be unaware that T/C matters little 'til we reach rifle caliber speeds and even then that threshold is kind of indistinct. Some say 2000 fps, others say 2200 fps. I am not sure that anyone can say for sure.


With pistols, it's penetration, then expansion, and in that order.

Merkavaboy 08-06-2012 19:04

My only carry caliber is 9mm, so that's what I'd use. But FMJ ammo would the very LAST bullet style I'd use.

Warp 08-06-2012 20:34

I'd go .38spl +P LSWC

janice6 08-06-2012 20:40

Your test seems to point out that either bullet will penetrate deep enough to hit a vital organ or bone, if the shot placement is appropriate.

Glock19Fan 08-06-2012 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowboy1964 (Post 19278779)
The markings you see in the gel outside the width of the projectile is the temporary cavity. It is caused by the higher velocity of the 9mm and is basically meaningless.

I agree, but a 9mm projectile traveling sideways, then traveling base forward (essentially a wadcutter) will not only produce a larger TC but also a larger PC.

dakrat 08-06-2012 21:22

lets see, a small bullet or a big bullet... Hmmm.... this is a tough one. we need volunteers!

Warp 08-06-2012 21:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by dakrat (Post 19279514)
lets see, a small bullet or a big bullet... Hmmm.... this is a tough one. we need volunteers!

.45 ACP doesn't make a big hole.

Rifles and shotguns make big holes.

dakrat 08-06-2012 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp (Post 19279533)
.45 ACP doesn't make a big hole.

Rifles and shotguns make big holes.

why stop there? this is makes a bigger hole

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...aval_gun-b.jpg


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