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purrrfect 10 07-28-2012 16:19

380 + p yup
 
OK I'm a G20 10 mm lover Best pistol ever made... I bought an LCP never thought I would but was wanting a small pocket pistol for those time not carrying my G20.. The Ruger LCP loaded 7 rounds Underwood +P 1150fps new hP would not be something I would want to be hit with.

LOOK out 9mm... The LCP 380+P is knocking once on your door and walking in.

Any other 380+ P lovers chim in on your experiences

Great little pistol with a punch :wow:

JW1178 07-28-2012 16:48

I doubt you'll actually see that kind of speed coming out of your LCP but the newer .380 loads aren't too bad. You are seeing much higher velosities out of 9mm luger so why not .380? Possibly the newer .380's are up to spec with older 9mm's?

Huaco Kid 07-28-2012 17:51

+P+ out of my Colt Pony makes your hand tingle.

You probably won't hit anything with it from very far out.

But, anyone in the general vicinity will run.

Hopefully.

Anglin_AZ 07-28-2012 19:05

It was my understanding that the LCP couldn't handle +p rounds.

LOCHFAL 07-28-2012 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anglin_AZ (Post 19246358)
It was my understanding that the LCP couldn't handle +p rounds.

Details schmetails. Don't think I'd enjoy trying it though. :wow:

arclight610 07-28-2012 19:53

All guns can handle at least 1 round of +p

G26S239 07-29-2012 01:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anglin_AZ (Post 19246358)
It was my understanding that the LCP couldn't handle +p rounds.

Several people on this forum have used them with no apparent harm to their guns or themselves. Ruger states no +P in the LCP manual and given that it has a 4 ounces slide I stick with standard pressure Remington 102 BJHPs.

NEOH212 07-29-2012 01:49

Instead of a pocket (expletive omitted) why not get a real gun in a real caliber. Such as 9x19 or larger?

There are plenty of small compact guns that fire a far more potent cartridge than the .380. I can't see why anyone can justify carrying a cartridge with the lousy track record that the .380 has.

It's your life not mine. I guess America loves it's fads more than logic.

Have at it there chisel chest!

:supergrin:

G26S239 07-29-2012 02:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by NEOH212 (Post 19247262)
Instead of a pocket (expletive omitted) why not get a real gun in a real caliber. Such as 9x19 or larger?

There are plenty of small compact guns that fire a far more potent cartridge than the .380. I can't see why anyone can justify carrying a cartridge with the lousy track record that the .380 has.

It's your life not mine. I guess America loves it's fads more than logic.

Have at it there chisel chest!

:supergrin:

Okay Alice, I'll bite. Because the LCP size guns are a hell of a lot smaller than the small 9mms and with several hundred rounds my LCP is tested reliable. Your disapproval is noted.

Here it is next to a Glock 26 and Kahr MK9. It is much slimmer and lighter.

http://i46.tinypic.com/2zpnrmb.jpg

http://i46.tinypic.com/2vljol0.jpg

It is also considerably smaller, lighter and thinner than a 642.

http://i47.tinypic.com/10z6bes.jpg

http://i46.tinypic.com/1498unn.jpg

NEOH212 07-29-2012 02:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by G26S239 (Post 19247284)
Okay Alice, I'll bite. Because the LCP size guns are a hell of a lot smaller than the small 9mms and with several hundred rounds my LCP is tested reliable. Your disapproval is noted.

Here it is next to a Glock 26 and Kahr MK9. It is much slimmer and lighter.

http://i46.tinypic.com/2zpnrmb.jpg

http://i46.tinypic.com/2vljol0.jpg

It is also considerably smaller, lighter and thinner than a 642.

http://i47.tinypic.com/10z6bes.jpg

http://i46.tinypic.com/1498unn.jpg

The size is definitely advantageous but is trumped by the cartridge. Sure, any gun is better than no gun but I don't see what's so dang hard about carrying at least a sub compact 9mm over those things.

I'm not much over 5" tall and weigh 130 pounds. I can conceal a full size pistol with no trouble. Now I don't expect everyone to be just like me but I hear so many people complaining that guns are too bulky, too heavy, to big, ect....

As a result, they settle for something less then optimum for defense. I don't see how someone justifies that when concealing, lets say a Glock 26 is easy as pie.

Just for the record, my 9x19 minimum is referring to a semi-auto pistol since that's what we were discussing.

The .38 Special has a great track record and is more than adequate for personal defense especially with the Speer 135+P loading.

No one can nor will ever convince me (and alot of professionals) that the .380 is adequate for personal defense.

YMMV.

G26S239 07-29-2012 02:36

I believe a lot of the difference is circumstance that people find themselves carrying in NEOH. And rule number 1 does apply. You don't have to sell me on the advantage that a G26 or P2000sk 40 has over a 380. My Kahr MK9 is the shortest barrel 9mm I have @ 3" and I would have to get the weakest 9mm I could find for it and get a 380 the size of my PPK w/3.35" barrel and the hottest +P 380 to even get the 380 in spitting distance. At that point the size differences are not a consideration, especially since I don't handicap my Kahrs or 26s to let the 380 try to catch up. I load my MK9 with HST2 147 grain loads. BTW this particular PPK is a 32, my only other 380 class cartridge gun is my Makarov 9X18 which is 26 ounces empty but tough built.

http://i45.tinypic.com/befk8.jpg

http://i48.tinypic.com/14t7ibm.jpg

NEOH212 07-29-2012 02:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by G26S239 (Post 19247307)
I believe a lot of the difference is circumstance that people find themselves carrying in NEOH. And rule number 1 does apply. You don't have to sell me on the advantage that a G26 or P2000sk 40 has over a 380. My Kahr MK9 is the shortest barrel 9mm I have @ 3" and I would have to get the weakest 9mm I could find for it and get a 380 the size of my PPK w/3.35" barrel and the hottest +P 380 to even get the 380 in spitting distance. At that point the size differences are not a consideration, especially since I don't handicap my Kahrs or 26s to let the 380 try to catch up. I load my MK9 with HST2 147 grain loads. BTW this particular PPK is a 32, my only other 380 class cartridge gun is my Makarov 9X18 which is 26 ounces empty but tough built.

All else aside, the main reason that I don't consider the .380 is because of the way it's performed in my testing (not scientific when compared to the industry) and actual industry testing. My experience has been what will reliably expand doesn't usually penetrate to a adequate depth and that which does penetrate to a adequate depth doesn't expand and often over penetrates.

I considered the .380 years ago but I was always put off by the less then stellar performance. Sure the .380 has put some people down. I never said it couldn't but it doesn't have the greatest track record and that's why I don't feel comfortable betting my life on it.

One thing I've never tested myself is how the .380 would perform in a contact shot or near point blank range. I would imagine the results would be similar to what I've observed already but I don't know that for sure.

I will say one thing, the .380 in those small single stack pistols make for a great hide away gun though!

If someday someone works out a bullet design that does the job, then my opinion my change. Until then.......

Folsom_Prison 07-29-2012 03:26

Carrying a gun should be comforting, not comfortable! IMO so many people take the easy way out with carrying a "small" gun instead of sacking up and carrying something bigger which I'm sure alot could pull off, but don't want to try.

That's just my opinion, I carry a G19 but wouldn't hesitate to carry a G17 or another full-size pistol if I had one.

G26S239 07-29-2012 03:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by G19_AJ (Post 19247345)
Carrying a gun should be comforting, not comfortable! IMO so many people take the easy way out with carrying a "small" gun instead of sacking up and carrying something bigger which I'm sure alot could pull off, but don't want to try.

That's just my opinion, I carry a G19 but wouldn't hesitate to carry a G17 or another full-size pistol if I had one.

Clint Smith likes to use that comforting not comfortable line. As a professional firearms trainer there is no downside to him possibly occasionally being made as armed. Maybe you should carry a full size 1911 like Clint does since you like quoting him. My TRS weighs just under 46 ounces loaded but I'll pass on carrying it - too damned heavy. I will also generally refrain from using my pistol to fight my way to my rifle like so many sheepdogs like to repeat. That Aurora massacre is a good example of the flaw in that mantra for an armed citizen. Having police respond to that call and being a well armed sheepdog going back into that theater as a non cop - no badge person armed with a rifle would not have gone well for such a sheepdog.

gwalchmai 07-29-2012 05:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by NEOH212 (Post 19247314)
All else aside, the main reason that I don't consider the .380 is because of the way it's performed in my testing (not scientific when compared to the industry) and actual industry testing. My experience has been what will reliably expand doesn't usually penetrate to a adequate depth and that which does penetrate to a adequate depth doesn't expand and often over penetrates.

We desire to optimize the properties of expansion and penetration, but in these mouse calibers we can't get reliable expansion. Since I can only have one of the desired properties I'll maximize penetration. Over-penetration doesn't scare me. I've never seen a case of a bystander getting hit by an over-penetrating round, but if it happened I doubt the round would have enough spunk left to do very much harm. Anyway, it's a trade-off I'm willing to make. ;)

I keep S&B FMJ in my P32, because it's the hottest I can find.

G26S239 07-29-2012 05:43

Penetration does not seem to suffer with the 102 grain Remington. Expansion sucks but I can live with that from a 380.


Restless28 07-29-2012 05:50

I like the size of those guns, but after seeing that gentleman pepper those thugs in Florida and they were able to run away, a .380 isn't in my future.

I would rather wear a large T and carry my G23.

Yup.

JEEPX 07-29-2012 06:07

I love the little LCP.

I carry an LCP as a bug all the time. At times, it has been carried as a primary.

I have 200 rounds of BB .380 +p 80 gr Barnes Tac-XP through my LCP.

There are NO signs of damage. If damage ever occurs, parts will be replaced or a new LCP bought.

It's not like the LCP is an expensive pistol.

BTW- in business apparel or casual, I carry CM9 99% of the time. A spare 8 round magazine is carried. I find this reliable. thin, comfortable setup perfect.
The other 1% a G26.


Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

gwalchmai 07-29-2012 06:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Restless28 (Post 19247466)
I like the size of those guns, but after seeing that gentleman pepper those thugs in Florida and they were able to run away, a .380 isn't in my future.

I would rather wear a large T and carry my G23.

Yup.

How many hits did he get on the thugs?

JEEPX 07-29-2012 06:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Restless28 (Post 19247466)
I like the size of those guns, but after seeing that gentleman pepper those thugs in Florida and they were able to run away, a .380 isn't in my future.

I would rather wear a large T and carry my G23.

Yup.

In the mid 90's Signal Mountain, TN police shot a man 8 times with. 45acp JHP. I remember it well because I lived on Signal Mountain at the time.
The man lived and quickly filed suit.
Does this show the. 45acp to be crap? Or that under fear and stress no shots hit COM.
By the same token a home intruder was killed in Rossville GA by two. 22lr shots.
IMO: too much is made over pistol caliber effectiveness.
Placement trumps caliber.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Halojumper 07-29-2012 06:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by G26S239 (Post 19247362)
Clint Smith likes to use that comforting not comfortable line. As a professional firearms trainer there is no downside to him possibly occasionally being made as armed. Maybe you should carry a full size 1911 like Clint does since you like quoting him. My TRS weighs just under 46 ounces loaded but I'll pass on carrying it - too damned heavy. I will also generally refrain from using my pistol to fight my way to my rifle like so many sheepdogs like to repeat. That Aurora massacre is a good example of the flaw in that mantra for an armed citizen. Having police respond to that call and being a well armed sheepdog going back into that theater as a non cop - no badge person armed with a rifle would not have gone well for such a sheepdog.

I've always thought that, for the overwhelming majority of situations, that mantra is ridiculous, for similar reasons as to what you expressed.

vote Republican 07-29-2012 06:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwalchmai (Post 19247490)
How many hits did he get on the thugs?

"Dawkins had a superficial wound in his left arm, but Henderson was shot in two places: his left buttock and his right hip."

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/18...-cafe-robbery/

So maybe you immobilize one of the guys with a .45. I guess the one that got hit in the arm, if it had been 10mm, it would have taken his arm off at the shoulder.

gwalchmai 07-29-2012 07:00

In any event, it sure stopped the robbery. ;)

Restless28 07-29-2012 07:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwalchmai (Post 19247580)
In any event, it sure stopped the robbery. ;)

No disagreement there.

John Galt 07-29-2012 08:55

When I was 17 my father was mugged by two men at knifepoint. He shot them both with a .380 Government Model. He killed one outright, the other died in surgery.



No one will ever convince me that the .380 is not a good defensive cartridge.


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