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-   -   Anyone ever use Norma 203-B? (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1427396)

Boxerglocker 06-15-2012 10:42

Anyone ever use Norma 203-B?
 
I was at IDPA practice and new member to our club and very nice guy, that I helped out with his new shooters orientation several months back. Walked up to me said hello and handed me a new unopened can of Norma 203-B powder. Said, He thought that it could be use for either .308 or heavier .223 loads.
http://accurateshooter.net/Blog/krutburk.gif

I caught a excerpt from the IMR - Daily Bulletin about it stating: Norma 203B Available from Grafs.com — Replaces Varget or RL15
For those folks desperate to find Hodgdon Varget or Alliant Reloder 15, we suggest you try Norma 203B. This is a very accurate powder very close in performance to Reloder 15 (it is produced by the same manufacturer, Bofors). It should give slightly more velocity than Varget, but it is somewhat more temperature sensitive.

In a 6mmBR or .308 Win, start with your Varget load with 203B. You may, then, be able to increase the load slightly, unless you’ll be shooting in very hot weather. Grafs.com has plenty of 1-lb cans of Norma 203B in stock, Item Number: NP203B1,

Anyone every use this powder for .223? Being similar to Reloader 15 or Varget, I'm suspecting it would push a heavier 69-77g pretty well. Just would like to find some data for it.

WiskyT 06-15-2012 11:32

I'd just stick with Unique.

F106 Fan 06-15-2012 12:50

I would just look up the loads in the Norma Reloading Manual. Oh, wait... I just did!

For .223 bullets lighter than or equal to 55 gr, Norma 200 and 201 is recommended.

For 60 gr, Norma 200, 201 and 202 is recommended

For 69 gr, Norma 201, 202 and 203B is recommended

For the 69 gr Sierra MK, 24.0 - 25.7 gr Norma 203B will give 2805 - 2986 fps. OAL 2.244"

In .308, Norma 203B is recommended for bullets equal to or heavier than 165 gr.

Richard

GIockGuy24 06-15-2012 13:34

These days it is the same powder as RL-15.

RL-7 = Norma 200

RL-11 (discontinued) = Norma 201

RL-12 (discontinued) = Norma 202

RL-15 = Norma 203B

RL-19 = Norma 204

RL-22 = Norma MRP

RL-25 = Norma MRP-2

RL-10 and RL-17 are newer powders.

Boxerglocker 06-15-2012 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by F106 Fan (Post 19092942)
I would just look up the loads in the Norma Reloading Manual. Oh, wait... I just did!

For .223 bullets lighter than or equal to 55 gr, Norma 200 and 201 is recommended.

For 60 gr, Norma 200, 201 and 202 is recommended

For 69 gr, Norma 201, 202 and 203B is recommended

For the 69 gr Sierra MK, 24.0 - 25.7 gr Norma 203B will give 2805 - 2986 fps. OAL 2.244"

In .308, Norma 203B is recommended for bullets equal to or heavier than 165 gr.

Richard

Where did you find load data? WTF, I looked.... Oh there it is :wow:
I need to get some more 69 SMKs and maybe some 75s to try out.

GIockGuy24 06-15-2012 13:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boxerglocker (Post 19093096)
Where did you find load data? WTF, I looked.... Oh there it is :wow:
I need to get some more 69 SMKs and maybe some 75s to try out.

The Norma website has load data and there are Norma load guides available but they aren't seen often.

GIockGuy24 06-15-2012 14:03

http://www.norma.cc/en/Ammunition-Academy/

http://www.norma.cc/en/Ammunition-Academy/Loading-Data/

F106 Fan 06-15-2012 14:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boxerglocker (Post 19093096)
Where did you find load data? WTF, I looked.... Oh there it is :wow:
I need to get some more 69 SMKs and maybe some 75s to try out.


For no particularly good reason, I bought the hardbound Norma Reloading Manual - Edition 1.

I thought that since I was going to be loading 6.5x284 Norma that maybe the manual would have something interesting.

As it turns out, 6mmbr.com has more interesting, albeit not really published, information.

As a loading manual, this book is a piece of artwork. It's really pretty.

Richard

GIockGuy24 06-15-2012 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by F106 Fan (Post 19093379)
For no particularly good reason, I bought the hardbound Norma Reloading Manual - Edition 1.

I thought that since I was going to be loading 6.5x284 Norma that maybe the manual would have something interesting.

As it turns out, 6mmbr.com has more interesting, albeit not really published, information.

As a loading manual, this book is a piece of artwork. It's really pretty.

Richard

Does the Norma load manual have load data for 7.62x39? The old Norma load data used to be on the website but that cartridge is no longer listed.

F106 Fan 06-15-2012 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by GIockGuy24 (Post 19093820)
Does the Norma load manual have load data for 7.62x39? The old Norma load data used to be on the website but that cartridge is no longer listed.


It's not in the book, either.

Richard

GIockGuy24 06-15-2012 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by F106 Fan (Post 19093839)
It's not in the book, either.

Richard

Okay, thanks. I think I have the old Norma load data recorded somewhere. I was curious if it had changed but I guess it has been dropped completely.

Boxerglocker 06-15-2012 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by GIockGuy24 (Post 19093929)
Okay, thanks. I think I have the old Norma load data recorded somewhere. I was curious if it had changed but I guess it has been dropped completely.

OK, I've committed already to saying that I wouldn't, but the curiosity has gotten to me.

For a AK 7.62x39mm what's the average cost to load for a typical training round per a thousand?

GIockGuy24 06-15-2012 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boxerglocker (Post 19094006)
OK, I've committed already to saying that I wouldn't, but the curiosity has gotten to me.

For a AK 7.62x39mm what's the average cost to load for a typical training round per a thousand?

Well I've never figured it out really. I buy the cheapest FMJ bullets I can find. I used to use Remington brass but it has changed from strong small primer cases to large primer cases I can't find due to limited production. Winchester brass does not last in this caliber. Lapua brass last a lot longer but is twice as much to buy. Back when I could find IMI brass it wasn't bad. There are PMC and Fiocchi cases. Federal cases are worse than Winchester cases. I can load ammo that is a lot more accurate than the cheap ammo.

Boxerglocker 06-15-2012 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by GIockGuy24 (Post 19094075)
I can load ammo that is a lot more accurate than the cheap ammo.

That's a given... too bad the bulgarian surplus can't be reloaded or can it?

F106 Fan 06-15-2012 17:52

New Lapua brass is about $0.60/each. If you can get 10 reloads, it averages out to $0.06/round.

Add $0.04 for powder, $0.02 for a primer and $0.10 for a bullet (all of these are WAGs) and you end up at $0.22/round or $220/1000. Not including shipping and Hazmat.

Just slightly cheaper than TulAmmo at CheaperThanDirt ($240/1000 plus shipping).

Richard

Boxerglocker 06-15-2012 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by F106 Fan (Post 19094140)
New Lapua brass is about $0.60/each. If you can get 10 reloads, it averages out to $0.06/round.

Add $0.04 for powder, $0.02 for a primer and $0.10 for a bullet (all of these are WAGs) and you end up at $0.22/round or $220/1000. Not including shipping and Hazmat.

Just slightly cheaper than TulAmmo at CheaperThanDirt ($240/1000 plus shipping).

Richard

I just got 2 cases of Wolf 123g for $229 each shipped.

F106 Fan 06-15-2012 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boxerglocker (Post 19094144)
I just got 2 cases of Wolf 123g for $229 each shipped.

I think you had the right answer earlier: Don't bother reloading this caliber. Don't bother bending down to pick up the brass.

Having bought all the consumables plus all the XL 650 caliber conversion stuff (including the Dillon die set plus the Dillon trim die), I am going to have to load a truck full of .223 to break even.

Richard

Boxerglocker 06-15-2012 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by F106 Fan (Post 19094158)
I think you had the right answer earlier: Don't bother reloading this caliber. Don't bother bending down to pick up the brass.

Having bought all the consumables plus all the XL 650 caliber conversion stuff (including the Dillon die set plus the Dillon trim die), I am going to have to load a truck full of .223 to break even.

Richard

.223 was a different story for me. I think I was $600 and change into getting geared up for that but saved over 50% on buying XM193. I've loaded close to 10K total now so it's paid for itself. That doesn't include the precision stuff, where I really save.

F106 Fan 06-15-2012 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boxerglocker (Post 19094272)
.223 was a different story for me. I think I was $600 and change into getting geared up for that but saved over 50% on buying XM193. I've loaded close to 10K total now so it's paid for itself. That doesn't include the precision stuff, where I really save.

My Dillon order was $400 (even) and I already had the trimmer. Everything should be here Tuesday.

I'm going to have to shoot a lot of ammo to break even.

Actually, it gives me something else to load with my XL 650 so it's all good.

Richard

burnsoft 10-03-2012 18:25

1 Attachment(s)
I just created my first loads for the 7.62x39 from this data. I'm mostly looking for a good long range round for a ar-15 in 7.62x39mm that I recently put together. I'll test the loads this weekend, but I hope the load data picture that I attached helps you out some, if you go that route.

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