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-   -   Where do people come up with this stuff?? (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1403731)

MakeMineA10mm 02-23-2012 07:07

Where do people come up with this stuff??
 
I need some suggestions from fellow collectors out there. As you can see, I've changed my signature line, and it has worked - I've had a couple people contact me about commemoratives they'd like to sell. However, I've had a run of bad luck/unreasonable people.

The first guy had a Bell Helo Glock. He asked me what I thought it was worth. I told him I'd rather he started off at a price and we'd go from there. He wouldn't put a number to it, and said something to the effect of: "hey, you're the expert, tell me what it's worth." I told him a starting offer that was fairly generous (started in the 4-figure range). I never heard another thing.

Then, a guy e-mails me and says he's got a Desert Storm Glock for sale, and he wondered if I would be interested. I explained that I already have one, but if the price is right, I'd be interested, and asked him what price he wanted. He said $2500, and he said that the "only two he could find for sale via google" were $10,500 and $3499... I told him that he needs to look harder as I had just seen a matched pair of DS Glocks on Gunbroker a month prior for $1500. After a long exchange of e-mails, with him challenging my knowledge of the collector's market, I told him to go ahead and try to sell it for $2500 on Gunbroker. He posted it there 7 times, starting at $3500 and the last time he posted it, he started it at $1500. The only time he got any bids was when he started it at $.01, and he got two bids, ending up at $450. (He had a reserve so it didn't sell.) Then he registers here at GT and puts it in the classified ads twice, back up at $2500. As I told him and expected, he still owns the gun....... :faint:

Then, my wife finds an FBI commemorative for sale on a website. The guy has it posted for $2500. I e-mail him and tell him my background and knowledge of comemmorative guns in general and the FBI commemorative specifically. I gently suggest what he has listed it for is far outside the realm of reasonableness. He says, "make me an offer." I do, and he comes back and says I'm waaay outside the realm of reasonableness (even though I offered him more than he paid for it, and a price within the range they've been selling for on GB), and that the owner of Rock Island Auctions told him it was worth $2500 and he wouldn't sell it for a fraction of that price.... I responded that I've been to RIA many times (I live nearby them), and they've very rarely had Glocks (they don't have a Glock-collecting clientele outside me, that I've seen), and if he thinks he can get $2500 for a Glock to go ahead and list it at the auction house. I'd love to see him get it (Again, it means my collection is worth more), but I strongly doubt he will.


So, my questions:

1) What is up with people??? You can see it over and over again here in the Collector's Corner that 99.9% of Glock owners won't buy a Glock they won't shoot anyway, and the collector's market in Glocks is pretty small. There's probably a couple hundred GCA members, and maybe 50 more guys that regularly post here who are true collectors?

2) Any suggestions on how to handle people who won't give a price and force me to give one first? (They've been watching Pawn Stars and American Pickers and think they know the system, I guess...) I've been a coroner for 12 years and I've given people news of a loved one's death that went over better than the reaction I'm getting from these people...

swim615 02-23-2012 08:07

What is and what is not collectable is very subjective to who you are talking to. Some people laugh at the thought of collecting Glocks but others have lots and keep looking for more. Some to never shot (even Glocks).

People get emotionally attached to guns more than most other things. Almost like they do with cars and that makes it very easy to over inflate the value.

Then when offered a price lower than they think it is worth they get mad and are offended.

I do not know the answer, sometimes time is your friend, just pass on it (or leave a standing offer for them to mull over after their emotions have calmed down) and if you are lucky it or another will come up. If I did I would either have allot more Glocks (I mean guns) or allot more money.

To me when I am collecting something, the hunt and the story that may come with it are as big a part as collecting itself is.

From the sellers stand point everything is just the opposite of this.

High Altitude 02-23-2012 09:31

I saw a used gen3 glock 19 priced more than what you could buy a brand new one for 2 tables down (or most gunshops for that matter) at the last gunshow. I explained everything to the dealer, made him a very fair offer, and he just laughed at me. The dealer even told me and I quote "This glock is very rare, you can't find it just anywhere" and this was just a plain jane gen3 19, LOL.

Some people just believe their stuff is worth more than market and there is nothing you can do about it but keep looking.

chewbackup 02-24-2012 00:03

I just dont get it either, I too had made a reasonable offer on a desert storm gun in the past and it was denied - the person never sold it. I have more rare, and lesser known glocks in my collection that I have gotten for a steal out of peoples ignorance. I think in general people are just being greedy and not getting the right info about market values. Just because some auction a-hole says/thinks something is worth xxxx dollars does not make it true.

Maybe in a perfect setting, in a bidding war with two or more motivated buyers, prices can go up - but that is not trypical and representing a market as a whole.

Here is a pic of my favorite ultra rare Glock, most people in the US dont even know these exist. The P9M is mostly jst a Glock 17 - A very, very small batch of these GSG 9 marine unit guns were imported. The guns came from the factory shipped to German BStU, with extra power red firing pin spring, marine cups, and lanyard for use in special operations in and around water.

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...p/IMG_2251.jpg

MakeMineA10mm 02-24-2012 14:41

I think I'll coin a phrase and call it "the pawn stars effect".

I think the bottom line is that when it comes to monetary value, people frquently think they're sitting on a gold mine, or they're afraid of being taken advantage of, so they get artificial ideas of worth/value and get indignant.

People need to do their own due diligence when selling something.

First off, go do a search of Gunbrokers CLOSED auctions for your exact gun, and see what the actual bidding and selling prices have been. Look at the prices of the ones that never sold (or even never got a single bid). Somewhere you will find an overlap, such as the most-expensive actual completed sales were $1105, $900, & $800, and the lowest prices where the same model did NOT sell were: $999, $1200, & $1400. That right there should tell you a reasonable value is between $800 & $1100. Just because someone else asks $3500 for the same model over and over and over again, doesn't mean it's worth that... (Maybe his wife told him "it's gotta go," and he's telling her: "look honey -I'm trying but nobody's bidding..."). Seems like too many of these sellers listen to bad advice/opinions and never go look for themselves...

Second, if you have something truly rare, which has no track record to check, you should get a grasp on what the full range of values are. I've seen run-of-the-mill Glocks trade from $200 all the way to $550 (w/no accessories). Collectables generally run $650 to $1500, depending on rarity and demand for the particular gun up for sale. Legitimate, factory one-of-a-kinds (Statue of Liberty, Ducks Unlimited, 1,000,000th, 2,000,000th) will jump to low five figures.

Third, keep in mind how much YOU paid for the Glock. All non-one-of-a-kinds cost less than $700 to the authorized end purchaser. Unless there's something incredibly rare about it (like only 25 were made 20 years ago, so they only come up for sale VERY rarely), it's not going to jump to many thousands or tens of thousands of dollars...

Sorry for bursting peoples' bubbles, but I figure my child or grandchildren is who is going to benefit from a profit on these (in 50-100 years), not me...

prism 02-24-2012 21:43

I thought the GCA was defunct.


Quote:

Originally Posted by chewbackup (Post 18623404)
I have more rare, and lesser known glocks in my collection that I have gotten for a steal out of peoples ignorance. I think in general people are just being greedy and not getting the right info about market values.


interesting contrast. haha

MakeMineA10mm 02-25-2012 11:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by prism (Post 18627305)
I thought the GCA was defunct.

They're website is gone and has been bought by someone, probably hoping the GCA will pay big money to get it back... I think it's gunbids.com that owns the URL now.

But, the Association is live and well. They have a newsletter and they've had a booth at NRA conventions up to two years ago (the last one I attended).

prism 02-25-2012 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by MakeMineA10mm (Post 18629234)
They're website is gone and has been bought by someone

this is why I thought they were defunct:

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=869668

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/show....php?t=1180809



-----------------


back on topic sorta.......... I have a magazine coupon from glock, about 1994-ish, that I won't sell for the price of a new mag. it's unusual, and reminds me of what was going on in 1994. to others it might only be worth the price of a magazine.

chewbackup 03-01-2012 15:38

LOL, here it goes again. Not a chance at this list price.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=275974310

MakeMineA10mm 03-02-2012 16:44

LOL!!!

It's like serial TV show that you wish was off the air! :)

martyj 03-03-2012 12:40

If you get this syndrome figured out we can move on to the next one.
That would be the guys that post WTB (Want to buy below cost)
Its like that on all forums sorry to say.
All in all most guys on the gun forums seem to be outstanding people and we should count out blessing.

Shaker223 03-08-2012 09:38

It's the same thing that has happened to the car hobby. Barret Jackson being the largest destroyer. Ebay is in there too.

People see these exhorninate prices (regardless if they sell or not) and think they have hit the mother load. I see people asking 5k for $800 cars or someone who did a "clone or tribute" vehicle and ask outragous prices. I see rusted out decroaded pieces of crap where the roof is the only good part on the whole vehicle and it's stripped too and people ask crazy money for those because of the "potential value".

I repair chainsaws occasionally too. Same story there. I'll try negotiating the purchase of a saw that say has been straight gassed and these people want darn near what a running saw goes for. See-ya.

I know how you feel.

LSglock89 03-08-2012 13:29

I always heard as far as negotiating goes... The first one to talk price loses.

Now through my experience that isn't always true, but it can be.

So if you wanted something from me, I expect you to give a number.

But I agree some people are unreasonable, heck I am too sometimes. I just want as much as I can get out of something because most of the time people are wasting my time. However if I can tell someone is serious I'll do my best to work with them.


-Posted via iPhone

MakeMineA10mm 03-10-2012 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSglock89 (Post 18684068)
I always heard as far as negotiating goes... The first one to talk price loses.

Now through my experience that isn't always true, but it can be.

So if you wanted something from me, I expect you to give a number.

But I agree some people are unreasonable, heck I am too sometimes. I just want as much as I can get out of something because most of the time people are wasting my time. However if I can tell someone is serious I'll do my best to work with them.


-Posted via iPhone

I heard this "principle" too, but the question is, who loses?

Guy A has something to sell. Person B wants it. Somebody had better say a number sometime, or no deal will get done...

Gunshops have stickers with prices on them for their wares. Does that mean they always lose? What is a loss?

In my mind, when someone is so unreasonable as to ask 20 times what something is worth, they've lost, even if I said the number first...

In all but one example above, the person came to me, presumably acknowledging my expertise in collecting commemoratives, as well as my "standing offer" to buy what I'm looking for... Yet, when I describe my opinion of it's worth, they scoff and run. OK, but if I'm right (and, so far, it looks like I have been), you're never gonna sell the thing, and your heirs will probably dispose of it with someone who won't give the premium I offerred (like the local gunshop...). Meqnwhile, I'll keep patiently explaining and biding my time for when someone reasonable does come along. So, who lost?

I do admit some people are just testing the waters to see what a realistic value is, but not these guys I posted about...

Mouse73 03-16-2012 11:32

At times a person may have something that they probably paid way too much for, instead of admitting they did they will fight the process of what the true value is without being up front. I have even caught myself in this same situation and had to suck up my pride eventually and admit I was wrong. But over time I got over and moved on now days a little more careful what I get into and have learned to ask more questions before diving in so to speak.

MakeMineA10mm 03-30-2013 19:08

One year bump! :)

I must say, in the year since this thread has been inactive, I've only been approached once, and it was by a fellow GTer, and he offered a pretty rare Glock at a reasonable price. (I turned it down, because it was not complete, and I know me -- If I bought this incomplete one, I would talk myself out of the complete one that comes along later, because I already have this one...)

Anyway, I am surprised by one thing - in this economy, not many people selling collectibles such as I'm looking for... Most must be in the hands of collectors already?


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Paul53 03-31-2013 18:16

I have an extremely rare G19 gen 4. Had it for months and haven't seen another with the same serial number! Will sell it for $10,000. A steal at that price!

MakeMineA10mm 03-31-2013 18:42

LOL!!!!

Be sure to put it on Gunbroker. I'm sure you'll get some bites there! :)

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Angry Fist 03-31-2013 18:53

MMA10, do you have one of these, and what could it go for?

http://www.gunslot.com/files/gunslot...ages/61001.jpg

MakeMineA10mm 03-31-2013 21:38

I do not have one of those, though that caliber is entertaining. After hearing about it last year and studying the round, I think a wildcat version of te round with a slightly shorter case and an after market barrel would be all I'd need to experiment/play with. It has very limited legality (being designed as an AP pistol) in the US and factory ammo nearly impossible to get, so a wildcat would be the way I go...

Value would be all in the eye of the beholder. Some guys collect police-marked Glocks; I collect Glock-factory-made commemoratives (only)...

I like weird/unusual stuff, but usually to shoot and experiment with, not to collect. For a value, I'd say it's a used Glock, but one that is VERY rare on this side of the Atlantic, but also a non-Glock-produced conversion... Depending on how fast it was to move vs. finding that guy who thought it was the neatest thing ever, I'd say it could go for anywhere between $700 and $2000, depending...

Some people still collect Gyro-Jet pistols and they're basically impossible to shoot (ammo old and impossible to find or replicate).


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