:yourock::agree::goodpost:

Being short and thin doesn't mean you get to jump to lethal force in every situation where you might need to defend yourself, so man up and reference my avatar.

:upeyes:

BS. You are the one who claimed that without a gun you are "defenseless."

Again, man up and reference my avatar.

:upeyes:

I'm not Billy Badass, I'm not going to throw down physically with 2 or more "thugs" that would like nothing more than to ring my bell.
I've had my ass handed to me by 2 guys, I fought back as well as I could, but in the end I was not the victor. Don't believe everything you see on TV when one guy takes on a bar full of bikers and walks away unscathed. I don't live in that fictional world.

I don't know where you got that I was whining, but you sir need to get out more. The world isn't all rainbows and puppy dogs, I've lived in places that would make most people piss their pants. I've seen things that most people have only seen on CSI or C.O.P.S. For you to say that anyones method of carrying a firearm is "stupid", only conveys that you are the one whining....

What if for example I said you were a coward because you hide your weapon? Afraid of the big bad boogyman police that will without certainty harass you or draw down on you if it was showing?

As a matter of fact I don't believe CC is stupid, I believe in the right to have a choice of how we carry our tools. If the public is so full of hoplophobes, then why isn't OC illegal everywhere? Why don't we hear more stories of gun grabs? Why don't we hear more stories of OCers being targeted? The liberal media would eat it up and you know it as well as I do.

You're entitled to your opinion and I respect that, but you've failed to answer my question so ill pose it again....

If OC were the only means to carry, would you leave your gun at home and leave yourself defensless to an armed or multiple attacker situation?

Good post Mike. I agree with what your saying. I personally think this thread is starting to get pointless. This is a lose lose thread. No matter how the argument is debated there will never be an agreement. There are some who like to OC and others who dont.Some believe it is displaying your rights and other say its "attention whoring". In my area it is generally a good thing. Most people I know and myelf included get asked questions. Most didnt know who could even carry a gun. It has its advantages and disadvantages. I have read countless threads on another forum that people were influnced into getting the CCW because of an OCer. I have also read threads where people freak because of the same OCer in a different part of town. I think waht matters most is getting more people to reconize they have rights and that includes carrying a firearm openly or concealed. What manner who choose to help educate people is just that YOUR OWN. All that really matters in the end is making sure that as a group we keep those rights so we all have something to sit on the forums and argue about.

No **** sherlock!!!! I also didnt say in every situation I would!!!
This was about OC, and if the sight of an OC gun is enough to make thug people stay away I am for it! I also prefer to not go to stupid places, with stupid people, and do stupid things! Situational awareness is top priority! :rofl::rofl: I just figured out what DMF means!!!!!!

I don’t OC and not only because it is not allowed in my state, even if it was, I don’t think it would be for me. There are people that OC for all the wrong reasons, at the wrong time and at the wrong place. While it is none of my business, I don’t think those people should OC either (personal opinion, nothing more). Conversely, I see nothing wrong with someone that OC and goes about their business without the intent to antagonize others, I even find myself agreeing with those that OC with a smile, a good disposition and the willingness to answer questions and satisfy the curiosity of others.

OC is taboo in many places where it is allowed because not enough people do it thus others become alarmed at the sight. There is but one way to effectively change that, you can’t get people used to seeing something unless they are exposed to it more frequently. If done often enough by the right people, at the right time, their perception would change with time. Expecting things to change overnight or when their exposure is to those that thrive in antagonizing others is just not very realistic.

There is little doubt in my mind that even I would be a tad shocked (not in a bad way) at first if they passed OC in Florida. It would take a little time before I got used to it. No doubt, it would take more work to convince others that are not as receptive; here is where we go back to the right people at the right time until most get used to it. There will be lots of interaction with the police, how that OC handles the interaction will have great influence on how it is accepted by others.

.

You've been called on that rhetorical question.

I commented, but you didn't respond.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RussP (Post 18604551) If that were the only option, yes. However, in Virginia, a person 18 years old or older may carry a handgun for self defense, but only those 21 years old or older may carry concealed. The only way persons between 18 and 21 can carry is openly. I know of individuals who on principal choose not to pay the Commonwealth's fee and undergo the background check required for a Concealed Handgun Permit. They carry openly. When Virginia chooses to join the ranks of Constitutional Carry States, they will carry concealed. In Virginia, open carry is the only way everyone who chooses to, if they are not otherwise prohibited from owning and possessing firearms, can carry a handgun for self defense.

Are you saying those persons in Virginia should not carry for defense against attack by people armed with clubs, knives, guns, or who have superior size and perhaps numbers?Who said they would "jump to lethal force in every situation where you might need to defend yourself," other than you? Are you assuming that everyone who carries will just go immediately to deadly force?No, he did not say without a gun he is defenseless, you said that about him.

I'm curious, how many people who open carry do you know personally? I don't mean people on the internet you just read about. How much interaction have you had with people who open carry?

I look forward to your answers...

A friend, a cop, PMed me this morning about another forum. He mentioned that he remembers when they "were on board with your "when and where appropriate" and dressing to minimize the firearm." Your "not go to stupid places, with stupid people, and do stupid things!" fits right in there. :thumbsup:

Please stop responding to the OP. Seriously.

He's been out of this for a long time. :cool:

To answer your question, I'm a member of Opencarry.org and have a little bit of interaction with the OCers there. There are a few other guys on there that live in my town that OC and I've talked to one on the phone via text, but I've never met up with any of them.
The only ones I personally know who OC is my youngest sister and her husband. My girlfriend does it occasionally when she wants to take a walk or take our son to the park, as we don't live in the best neighborhood in town.
I OC pretty much anywhere I go where it is allowed, and I try to avoid places where I'm not legally able to.

This is a complex issue. The first problem lies with the media and LEOs. They've both allowed and helped condition the public that anyone with a gun that isn't a LEO must be a criminal because guns in the hands of civilians simply cannot be legal. I saw this all too often as a MP Team SGT at Ft. Benning.

The next problem lies with 911. 911 operators often are not trained in how to handle MWAG calls for the law abiding citizen (LAC) and that's a HUGE problem.

Another problem is that the LEOs and the legislators are not willing to take the step to pursue criminal attachment or reimbursement for the department on bogus MWAG calls that involve the LAC and for good reason.

Then there's the next-step that some departments have been documented as taking: You want your firearm back huh? Prove you own it.

Of course there's also the extreme within departments like that of former Officer Daniel Harless from Canton, Ohio.


So where do I stand? At a minimum the department should make proactive efforts to identify 911 callers and pursue department reimbursement for lost resources and man hours for looking into bogus MWAG calls on the LAC. The other edge of that sword means it could discourage people from calling 911 for genuine MWAG calls where a crime is actually about to or does exist.

HB 1369
Allows any person with a valid concealed carry endorsement to openly carry firearms on or about his or her person or in a vehicle regardless of any other state law or local ordinance
Sponsor:Fitzwater, Paul (152)Co-Sponsor:Lasater, Brent (053) ... et al.Proposed Effective Date:8/28/2012LR Number:4202L.02ILast Action:2/21/2012 - HCS Voted Do Pass (H)Bill String:HB 1369Next Hearing:Hearing not scheduledCalendar:Bill currently not on a House calendar





I am no politician and from what i see i assume OC got passed in there meeting yesterday but not sure where it goes from here,if it has to go thru more meetings or wait to get signed by Jay Nixon

Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water. The MM is back.

^^^ I thought he might have grown tired of bearing the 'butt' of our jokes.....

He even spelled politician right, but I have no idea what legislative authority he is referring to.

Let me help...here's a link:

HB 1369 - Allows any person with a valid concealed carry endorsement to openly carry firearms on or about his or her person or in a vehicle regardless of any other state law or local ordinance

Thanks Russ, I did check it out. Regardless of statutory considerations, I am still going to limit my OC to legal hunting seasons.

I wish we could OC during hunting season, we can only CC when hunting with another firearm.

:thumbsup:

First of all, I'm a cop, and I resent the fact that you find it necessary to lump us in with the media that has made it a point to portray anyone with a gun as bad. So it's our fault? Sure we have liberal, anti-gun officers, but they are the minority (and they disgust me as much as anyone else).

How about we point the finger at the damn politicians that have crusaded against guns and demonized those who choose to carry one to protect themselves. I'm not sure how you decided that the media and cops were to blame. It's the gun laws and political crap that have also made our jobs more difficult. It's ran down hill and caused an ignorant view on guns. Look at our military for Christ sake. Go on any military base and only the MPs are allowed to carry guns, what a joke.

As far as going after those calling 9-1-1 to report legal open carry. It won't happen unless one person is found to be calling over and over again with the knowledge that they are reporting someone legally carrying. If they perceive something to be an emergency and call 9-1-1, chances are they won't be prosecuted. If we go overboard enforcing the abuse of 9-1-1, like you pointed out, it will deter people from calling when it is necessary.

All of these yahoos parading around in groups while open carrying do nothing to help either. They are only making it worse. It makes me laugh when they get pissed and want legal action taken against a business for calling the police on them and making them leave their property. The same people whining about how they have a right to open carry want the property rights of businesses infringed upon?

All of these yahoos parading around in groups while open carrying do nothing to help either. They are only making it worse. It makes me laugh when they get pissed and want legal action taken against a business for calling the police on them and making them leave their property. The same people whining about how they have a right to open carry want the property rights of businesses infringed upon?


That is my form of thinking as well with OC.Sure i want it to pass as if i am going to CC and say my shirt exposes my weapon due to bending over atleast it wont be a Brandishing Issue i may have to try to explain my way out of.

Just dont bend over.....:eric::aodnsb:

This is one of the many OC bills that are currently in the MO house and Senate right now. A couple of them are assigned to Committees and are still going through the process.