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tim12232 02-16-2012 21:33

So let me bring this up to the LEO's...
Should I for whatever reason be open carrying "legally", does the way one dress and carry themselves have any influence on wether or not you make contact with me?

What are some of the things that will influence your decision on making contact/talking to an OC'er?

Again, once my CHP comes in the mail, I will be CC'ing only at home around the house outside working on the yard will I generally OC.



Thanks

Tim

GumbyDammit 02-16-2012 21:35

We did have an incident at the local mall (where I live, not work) about a year ago that did garner some much needed attention IMO. Some AH went to the mall with a couple of long guns slung accross his chest to prove his point about being able to OC an unloaded firearm. I think one was a P90 and the other an AR or Ak. He pulled this stunt a couple of times at the same mall and was trespassed. I think the guy was 1096 and was either looking for a conflict or testing the system... or just a hole.

Not long before that a guy in the big city North of us did the same thing and a citizen reported it. He was confronted by police which turned into a shootout and left him drt. If I remember correctly his intention was to take up a position on a building or garage roof and set up target practice.

The OCers need to realize that there is a fine line they walk. Some things may be legal, but will get scrutiny because they are highly unusual or out of place. A great tool of LE is "reasonable suspiscion" or "would average Joe think this is unusual or suspiscious". If Joe would think it's out of place or suspiscious, then I do too and I take the next step in the discovery process.

While a guy eating dinner with his family, wearing a sidearm isn't off the reasonable scale to me, a guy with two long arms slung across his chest is and will get plenty of cautious attention.

Personally I don't get open carry, but I'm okay with it. Last OCer I saw was at a movie theatre when I was with my family. Guy came in with a Govt. 45 on his hip. It was nice for me that everyone in the entire lobby saw it and was laser focused on "the guy with the gun". Best part was watching the gang bangers watching him. Gave me a great advantage to see who was studying him closely while he shoved popcorn in his mouth.

gsp174 02-16-2012 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by tim12232 (Post 18590393)
So let me bring this up to the LEO's...
Should I for whatever reason be open carrying "legally", does the way one dress and carry themselves have any influence on wether or not you make contact with me?

What are some of the things that will influence your decision on making contact/talking to an OC'er?

Again, once my CHP comes in the mail, I will be CC'ing only at home around the house outside working on the yard will I generally OC.

Tim are you saying that you will CC around the house and yard, but OC in public?

OC might alarm people no matter what you wear just be civil and articulate if you have an interaction with a LE.

tim12232 02-16-2012 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsp174 (Post 18590641)
Tim are you saying that you will CC around the house and yard, but OC in public?

OC might alarm people no matter what you wear just be civil and articulate if you have an interaction with a LE.


My bad!! Watching TV, trying to type, and think is too much for my feeble mind :supergrin:

I will CC while I am out and about daily.

I only OC rarely, for a meet and then I am usually wearing nice jeans, dress shirt and look semi respectable lol!

I will on OC generally while at home, doing things outside around the house.

WarCry 02-16-2012 22:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by tim12232 (Post 18590728)
I only OC rarely, for a meet and then I am usually wearing nice jeans, dress shirt and look semi respectable lol!

Don't take this wrong, I'm not jumping on you for anything, but I have an honest question:

When you say you're going to a meet, do you mean like a shooting competition, or a meet-up with other open carriers?

It's the latter situation that I don't - and never will - get my mind around, groups of guys and/or gals getting together for no other purpose than to show off that they can carry guns. It falls under the "can you vs should you" arguments.

But I'm honestly not judging. Even if that IS the kind of meet you're talking about, to each their own.

G30Mike 02-16-2012 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarCry (Post 18590765)
I don't - and never will - get my mind around, groups of guys and/or gals getting together for no other purpose than to show off that they can carry guns.

I've never met up with other OCers, but I can see why they do it.
Ever been to a car show? Those folks are doing nothing but showing off the fact that they have nice cars, and enjoy the fact that they can have them. :)

tim12232 02-16-2012 23:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarCry (Post 18590765)
Don't take this wrong, I'm not jumping on you for anything, but I have an honest question:

When you say you're going to a meet, do you mean like a shooting competition, or a meet-up with other open carriers?

It's the latter situation that I don't - and never will - get my mind around, groups of guys and/or gals getting together for no other purpose than to show off that they can carry guns. It falls under the "can you vs should you" arguments.

But I'm honestly not judging. Even if that IS the kind of meet you're talking about, to each their own.

Quote:

Originally Posted by G30Mike (Post 18590825)
I've never met up with other OCers, but I can see why they do it.
Ever been to a car show? Those folks are doing nothing but showing off the fact that they have nice cars, and enjoy the fact that they can have them. :)

There are plenty of OC meets, "once a month". I dont go to those, this is that once a summer bbq at a park and just have a nice afternoon, that or an OC meet to go shooting at the range.
I myself prefer to spend my time at the range, learning more and more about shooting! been shooting pistols for 7 years now and still have lots to learn! Im not one to get my jollies by just flaunting a gun and drawing unnecessary attention to myself :supergrin: I do like the freedom to do so, but I also dont want to be the guy that makes people even more afraid of guns. My example would be Chuck Norris, now on a serious level, I am using him because he is a high level martial artist. He doesnt go around flaunting it, by round house kicking everything that moves to show he can, he dress's like the rest of us doesnt go around wearing his black belt every where he goes, he just blends in....

Ok so Chuck Norris was probably a really bad example because everyone knows who he is and that his tears cure cancer but he never cries and all that:supergrin:
But I hope you get what I am trying to say?!


Tim

G30Mike 02-16-2012 23:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by tim12232 (Post 18590926)
He doesnt go around flaunting it, by round house kicking everything that moves to show he can

This is a blatant lie sir, you obviously know nothing about Chuck Norris and his public relations.....
:D

Morris 02-17-2012 15:28

Quote:

I only own one gun. That's all I need.
Shaddup man! My wife will read this and think I need to be the same way . . .

Sgt127 02-17-2012 16:08

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j2...hugLifeWEB.jpg

So, for all the OC'ers. A question. If this gentleman were to walk into the resturant where you and the family were eating, the Police would be out of line to contact him. Assuming they don't have that silly "No Shoes, No Shirts, No Service" sign. Correct?

nikerret 02-17-2012 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sgt127 (Post 18593529)
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j2...hugLifeWEB.jpg

So, for all the OC'ers. A question. If this gentleman were to walk into the resturant where you and the family were eating, the Police would be out of line to contact him. Assuming they don't have that silly "No Shoes, No Shirts, No Service" sign. Correct?

Since when could LE enforce store policy?:whistling:

Oh, and: He seems legit, to me:wavey:

Detectorist 02-17-2012 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morris (Post 18593353)
Shaddup man! My wife will read this and think I need to be the same way . . .

:rofl:

Steve in PA 02-17-2012 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by GumbyDammit (Post 18590407)

A great tool of LE is "reasonable suspiscion" or "would average Joe think this is unusual or suspiscious". If Joe would think it's out of place or suspiscious, then I do too and I take the next step in the discovery process.

Actually, that is a terrible tool on the basis you mentioned. The average Joe probably has no idea what is reasonably suspicious. What may seem out of place for him, may in fact be perfectly legal. It our job to know where the line is.

The topic of this thread is OC, which is 100% legal in PA. Many police dispatches have begun with the Average Joe/Josephine calling 911 about a "man with a gun". Well, what was the man doing? Was he waiving it around? Was he pointing it at someone? Etc.

Sgt127 02-17-2012 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikerret (Post 18593568)
Since when could LE enforce store policy?:whistling:

Oh, and: He seems legit, to me:wavey:


Word.

Ship A'Hoy 02-17-2012 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by trdvet (Post 18590012)
Am I being detained?
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:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

ray9898 02-17-2012 20:22

What a thread. Wow.

Bill Lumberg 02-18-2012 09:21

It's usually evident they're not LE. That, given an exposed weapon, in an urban environment kind of lets you know that it's a person who probably doesn't make the best choices. Dressed well or dressed poorly, that doesn't make it patently illegal. Just a behiavor that is more likely than others to cause problems.
Quote:

Originally Posted by tim12232 (Post 18590393)
So let me bring this up to the LEO's...
Should I for whatever reason be open carrying "legally", does the way one dress and carry themselves have any influence on wether or not you make contact with me?

What are some of the things that will influence your decision on making contact/talking to an OC'er?

Again, once my CHP comes in the mail, I will be CC'ing only at home around the house outside working on the yard will I generally OC.



Thanks

Tim


Misty02 02-18-2012 09:39

Curious, are you implying you were the person that wrote the post below? Or is it one you are addressing that someone else posted?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoneyMaker (Post 18583855)
#1


LMTDhttp://forum.opencarry.org/forums/im...er-offline.png
Regular Member http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/images/ranks/1.gifJoin Date Apr 2010Location , , Posts 1,318

Detained, no, NOT detained! St. Peters Red Lobster

http://images.tacticalrepublic.com/7...4a0ccaf0b0.jpghttp://delivery.tacticalrepublic.com...TM&cb=54418527
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Well I made it by mom & Dad's before Starbucks tonight to get the wheel gun I keep there since pop wanted one and mom freaks over the XD's not having a safety. I needed it to complete the "cowboy" stereotype for the "M" in case he mustered the courage to actually show up and engage in civil conversation, he did not.

So we call it a night at Starbucks and I head hom to take my lovely maiden out on the town to my least favorite restaurant Red Lobster, sea food is not my thing and the NY strip there is just ok, but it is one of those days it is her choice!

Of course this is the same story for perhaps 300 other folks so there is a huge long wait, 1.5 hours is what we were told. Lucky for us, while we prefer a booth, they have backs on the chairs at the bar so it works too. A couple got up and we took their seats and began our dinner. Now for those reading along, note I am not carrying your regular compact automatic so many of us enjoy, I have a 6" stainless 686-4 hanging off my side, this is a fairly large "Dirty Harry" looking thing.

The couple next to us at the bar are talking a little about it but not negative at all and after perhaps 30 minutes ask if it was indeed a Valentines day gift. I told them no and I had just come from a meeting with friends to help against the Starbucks boycott. Now bear in mind, we stood in the entry for perhaps 20 minutes talking with various persons and have now been seated for perhaps an hour when all of the sudden here are the popo! The conversation went very close to what is below, I did not have my camera on when it started, but did get it turned on during the event, if anything is worth showing, I will upload it but since it was so unexpected I doubt there is anything of value. Here are the events as they unfolded:

Leo: You probably expected us to be here
Me: (some what startled, he snuck up between us when I was not looking, I actually looked down before I realized it was a Leo) uhm, no I certainly did not but I see you are here,
Leo: Well we have had some calls and you at least know why. Can you step outside with us and give us some ID?
Me: Well if I am being officially being detained I will, but I would prefer not to, I want to finish my dinner, and yes sir, I am one of those guys, I am an advocate and a lobbyist, I will cooperate, but I want to finish my dinner.
Leo: Ok, can we see some ID?
Me: Yes, it is in my wallet (stand up and get wallet)
Leo: "thank you, do you have your CCW?"
Me: That is what that is sir, would you like one from another state? I have several?
Leo: "No this is fine" (MO ID) and steps behind me leaving a much smaller and younger officer to my right (strong side)
Me: to second smaller Leo "I am going to go ahead and sit back down, I don't want any of my movements to startle you, I am just going to eat"
Leo2: That's fine sir, we know you are probably a good guy, just got the call"

My lovely maiden: This is kind of stupid
Me: No, they are being polite and just doing their job, just let them do it, it will be fine
Lady who asked about gun earlier: No, it is really stupid, there is three of them and several cars, what a waste of money, you have been here over an hour, what kind of idiot calls the police when nothing is going on.
Me: (I turn a look and sure enough there are three officers) Such is life, they are being nice and just doing their job, I do not blame them, it is just the world we live in now.
Her Husband: Well it is no different than the one I have under my shirt, MO is an OC state, I don't understand what the big deal is.
Me :well I conceal a lot too, we just had a meeting to support Starbucks from the brady boycott tonight or I might have been, I do both.
Leo: Thank you sir (while handing ID back)
Me: Have a good evening

They then proceed over to the managers office in a huddle, all three of them and talk to him, no idea what they said. They then exited and talked in the parking lot. Time at managers office about 15 minutes, time outside about the same. We had finished our meal by then and I apologized to the bar keep for creating any sort of disturbance and he said it was nothing to him and he was thinking about getting his CCW and did I know a good trainer. I told him of Dan Smith at top gun and then also recommended Armed Missouri as well as Ultimate defense as recommended options.

As we exited, the last two police cars were leaving and I waved, both officers waved back and smiled.

KUDO's to the LEO's involved, VERY polite and professional through the entire interaction with me. St Peters is an OC with CCW area, they had no RAS to demand ID, I suppose I could have opted not to do so, but there was little reason not to and if I made that call, they do not have to have much to get RAS and keep me from my food for 20 or so minutes. Since they did not insist I go outside with them, I saw no reason not to make their job easier and MY evening more pleasant by consenting and giving it to them. If they ad insisted on going outside, I would have been far less compliant. I just did not want to mess up a nice evening.

I will write a note to their Chief commending the polite response.

__________________________________________________________________________
Above this line is a lobbyist so he says not myself
This is there top guy on that site and if you read it well,he even states he was video taping the event,Seems he always wants to have a weapon on and a camera running,then promotes himself as the great Leader to get a new gun law passed,To me and if i was a LE i would not wanna have to deal with fellows like this period!!!!!!!!!


Chad Rogers 02-18-2012 09:52

As a citizen (and ex-LEO) and in my book, open carrying, when you have the option to concealed carry, is a sign of mental health issues. So I just look at the person as having some sort of self-esteem/identity issues. They also usually seem to have serious weight issues but that's not a formal study, just an informal observation.

RussP 02-18-2012 10:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Misty02 (Post 18596776)
Curious, are you implying you were the person that wrote the post below? Or is it one you are addressing that someone else posted?

He's not the original author.


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