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-   -   Open Carry thoughts (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1401920)

RussP 02-18-2012 10:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonGlock26 (Post 18596985)
It's legal in my state. Some people WANT a false arrest and a lawsuit.

That is one of the sad truths about what happened in the open carry community.

The original lawsuits were in response to inappropriate, uncalled for LE responses to people legally carrying while going about normal activities. (Yeah, I know, and agree, that's debatable and subject to interpretation) Very quickly, however, a group emerged that went out of their way to generate/instigate/provoke negative LE encounters. They received the publicity. They were looking for punitive financial settlements.

Some of those people were shunned by other OCers. Some were embraced. Others were counseled to change their tactics.
Quote:

Originally Posted by DonGlock26 (Post 18596985)
I act very bored with the call for service run, and it makes them sad.

True...
Quote:

Originally Posted by DonGlock26 (Post 18596985)
That said, OC is tactically stupid in an urban environment.

I question the common sense of those who OC in a known high crime area at the wrong time of day/night.

RussP 02-18-2012 10:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarCry (Post 18597027)
I don't know, Russ, I've seen a lot of your posts. You may be stretching saying no mental health issues....






:tongueout:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Misty02 (Post 18597071)
:rofl::rofl:

Oops:outtahere:

Y'all been talking to my grandkids, huh...They are worried about the genetics...:cool:

Misty02 02-18-2012 10:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by RussP (Post 18597147)
Y'all been talking to my grandkids, huh...They are worried about the genetics...:cool:

I’ve said nothing; it’s all WarCry’s fault. I was merely passing by and observed…..
:innocent:

SCSU74 02-18-2012 11:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by GumbyDammit (Post 18590407)

Personally I don't get open carry, but I'm okay with it. Last OCer I saw was at a movie theatre when I was with my family. Guy came in with a Govt. 45 on his hip. It was nice for me that everyone in the entire lobby saw it and was laser focused on "the guy with the gun". Best part was watching the gang bangers watching him. Gave me a great advantage to see who was studying him closely while he shoved popcorn in his mouth.

Couldnt agree more. Less attention the better, for me anyway


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G30Mike 02-18-2012 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chad Rogers (Post 18596812)
As a citizen (and ex-LEO) and in my book, open carrying, when you have the option to concealed carry, is a sign of mental health issues. So I just look at the person as having some sort of self-esteem/identity issues. They also usually seem to have serious weight issues but that's not a formal study, just an informal observation.

This post made me laugh....perhaps you sir are the one with the mental health issues?

Isn't there some kind of law against people with mental health issues that prohibits them from owning a firearm? Everyone who OC's must be a criminal and a prohibited person in your book?

Some peoples opinions never cease to amaze me.....

Bill Lumberg 02-18-2012 13:32

"some kind of law" would be 18USC922. But most mentally ill folks haven't been adjudicated as such. I'm not saying all OC'ers are mentally ill. I have met some that are, but I wouldn't suggest that it was a prerequisite to urban OC. It clearly isn't. And I'm not just talking about Russ.

G30Mike 02-18-2012 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Lumberg (Post 18598048)
"some kind of law" would be 18USC922. But most mentally ill folks haven't been adjudicated as such. I'm not saying all OC'ers are mentally ill. I have met some that are, but I wouldn't suggest that it was a prerequisite to urban OC. It clearly isn't. And I'm not just talking about Russ.

The some kind of law comment was meant in a smartass way.
Some people see hoplophobes as mentally ill.
I've met people that CC, and also people that don't carry guns at all and are indifferent to firearm ownership that can be loosely thrown in the "mentally ill" category as well.

There are crazy people everywhere in every walk of life. Crazy people also think normal people (if there is such a thing), are crazy because they think the crazy people are crazy.....

DMF 02-18-2012 21:28

My thoughts on open carry?

It's legal in some places, and it's stupid in all places.

:upeyes:

G30Mike 02-18-2012 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMF (Post 18599868)
My thoughts on open carry?

It's legal in some places, and it's stupid in all places.

:upeyes:

So if OC was the only legal means to carry a gun then you'd leave yourself defenseless? Sad.....

GumbyDammit 02-18-2012 23:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve in PA (Post 18593577)
Actually, that is a terrible tool on the basis you mentioned. The average Joe probably has no idea what is reasonably suspicious. What may seem out of place for him, may in fact be perfectly legal. It our job to know where the line is.

I know what you're saying. What I was trying to get across is that even a "legal" situation can be suspiscious and being able to articulate why it's suspiscious such that it meets the reasonableness standard is what's key for us.

If I see someone standing on the sidewalk with their face against a pawnshop window looking in at 2:00 in the afternoon that isn't illegal and isn't necessarily suspiscious, but the same guy doing that at 2:00 in the morning would be suspiscious and will get contacted even though what he's doing may not be illegal.

Re: the situations I mentioned in a later post. Two guys just walking around with guns. Officers investigated - one was an OC'er just out excercizing his rights and the other ended up in a shootout with police. Two similar situations two different outcomes.

See More:
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=12175791
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=14047833
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=14038481

An OC'er may not be doing anything illegal, but depending on the situation they need to realize they may still get contacted by LE and shouldn't be surprised by it. We don't magically know who the nutjob is and who the good guy is. Likewise in some situations I may talk to the RP and tell them to mind their own business and have a nice day, it just depends on the circumstance.

Either way, don't get your panties in a wad and automatically assume every cop wants to take your guns and your rights away or flip out because you didn't get the attention you were looking for.

WH5V 02-19-2012 03:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by GumbyDammit (Post 18590407)
Last OCer I saw was at a movie theatre when I was with my family. Guy came in with a Govt. 45 on his hip. It was nice for me that everyone in the entire lobby saw it and was laser focused on "the guy with the gun". Best part was watching the gang bangers watching him. Gave me a great advantage to see who was studying him closely while he shoved popcorn in his mouth.

I retired 10 months ago from active duty military, and now I'm a dispatcher rather than a LEO. So although I may not be certified to do a LEO job, it does mean that I'm tactically and situationally aware. I may choose to OC around home now and then, or on the range or hiking or camping, but generally speaking I prefer CC simply for the reason listed above by GumbyDammit. I like the idea that any potential bad guy is focused on someone else, rather than me. And regardless if you are OC or CC, you must be situationally aware... which appears it may not have been the case with the guy "shoving popcorn in his mouth". I appreciate him creating a distraction and keeping attention off me and my CCW.

As far as being approached by an officer... my experience has generally been that since a LEO is just a person doing a job, as any of us are, simply being up front, honest, respectful and pleasant, just as you would to anyone else, goes a long way towards making everyone's day move along nicely. And you might even make a friend or shooting buddy in the process.

series1811 02-19-2012 03:43

I think there is a place for open carry. But, it ain't a shopping mall, or downtown in the middle of the day.

Unless you are an attention whore.

jmathis84 02-19-2012 06:21

I have been reading and kinda studing this thread and watching it grow. I would like to say first thanks to all of you in the LEO community. I respect you and the job you do. You all put yourself in suitations everyday I pray to never ever be in. As far as the whole OC/cc debate this is where I stand. I live in a small rural city in south GA. If you go to town and don't see some on Oc'ing its an odd day. Myself personally I carry both openly and concealed. I don''t do it to be an "attention whore". A coupl of years ago I suffered from a back injury. I want to be armed everyday for the protection on my family. There are days when it is not comfortable at all to CC. I have no other option that to OC or not carry at all. What would you guys do in my situation? I have spoke to many LEO's in my are while OCing and none has any issues with it. They mostly comment on what I'm carrying and the kinda holster I am using. Again I mean no offense at all in this statement.

Sgt127 02-19-2012 08:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmathis84 (Post 18600798)
A coupl of years ago I suffered from a back injury. I want to be armed everyday for the protection on my family. There are days when it is not comfortable at all to CC. I have no other option that to OC or not carry at all. What would you guys do in my situation

How does wearing an untucked loose shirt over the gun that you are carying make a difference on your back?

jmathis84 02-19-2012 08:57

It doesnt bother my back at all. It is a habit for me to keep my shirt tucked in. Raised in a miltary-old fashioned family.

Sgt127 02-19-2012 09:19

Ah. It took me awhile to accept shirts untucked. So, I understand.

RussP 02-19-2012 09:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmathis84 (Post 18600798)
Myself personally I carry both openly and concealed. I don''t do it to be an "attention whore". A coupl of years ago I suffered from a back injury. I want to be armed everyday for the protection on my family. There are days when it is not comfortable at all to CC. I have no other option that to OC or not carry at all.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sgt127 (Post 18601176)
How does wearing an untucked loose shirt over the gun that you are carying make a difference on your back?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmathis84 (Post 18601260)
It doesnt bother my back at all. It is a habit for me to keep my shirt tucked in. Raised in a miltary-old fashioned family.


When I carry concealed, I carry IWB with either a cover garment or a polo shirt with a finished, banded bottom. The untucked t-shirt/polo/straight bottom shirts are not for me, either.

Like jmathis84, there are days when the IWB rig is too uncomfortable, so I go OWB. I do have leather OWB holsters that conceal well, but then there are the days when arthritis in my elbow and shoulder make drawing from the leather problematic. So, usually, I OWB with a BlackHawk SERPA CQC, when needed, with a cover garment.

jmathis84 02-19-2012 11:51

So you know my "pain" SGt.:rofl: It is something I am working on. Russ I have tried the polo shirts untucked but they drive me nuts anything with a collar or buttons in the front I have to tuck in. If I don't I just feel like im being a "bum". That is one thing I am glad about where I live. Never had to deal with the frantic calls or the LEO encounters for OC. It is a very common form of carry in GA. I don't carry that way often maybe 2-3 days out of the month so I can't offically call myself an Oc'er. I do like the fact of an "ace" up my sleeve but sometimes I just can't tolerate it. Stupid nerves and discs in my back just give me al kinds of grief.

Vigilant 02-19-2012 13:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmathis84 (Post 18602021)
So you know my "pain" SGt.:rofl: It is something I am working on. Russ I have tried the polo shirts untucked but they drive me nuts anything with a collar or buttons in the front I have to tuck in. If I don't I just feel like im being a "bum". That is one thing I am glad about where I live. Never had to deal with the frantic calls or the LEO encounters for OC. It is a very common form of carry in GA. I don't carry that way often maybe 2-3 days out of the month so I can't offically call myself an Oc'er. I do like the fact of an "ace" up my sleeve but sometimes I just can't tolerate it. Stupid nerves and discs in my back just give me al kinds of grief.

Consider something the size of a Kahr P9, in a Nemesis pocket holster. Works really well, and 8 rounds of 124-grain 9MM +P should handle at least the vast majority of trouble one might encounter. A reload would be icing on the cake.

ray9898 02-19-2012 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by series1811 (Post 18600577)
I think there is a place for open carry. But, it ain't a shopping mall, or downtown in the middle of the day.

Unless you are an attention whore.

Yup....I carry a gun for protection and not for the "hey look at me" factor. A concealed gun is just as effective and gives me more of an advantage than OC does.

jmathis84 02-19-2012 16:26

My last post was more of a joking matter refering to the fact of my old fashioned ways of keeping my shirt tucked in is not letting me conceal my gun all the time. I have looked at the pocket autos before. I just don't care for a gun that small. They smallest gun I have ever owned and cared for was my 637 airweight. If I ever choose to carry a smaller firearm of that nature it would certainly be a snubnose revolver. I want adsolute reliability if I am limiting myself to a pocket carry firearm. I do appreciate the recommendation though Vigilant.

DMF 02-19-2012 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by G30Mike (Post 18600164)
So if OC was the only legal means to carry a gun then you'd leave yourself defenseless? Sad.....

So you're only able to defend yourself with a gun? Sad. :upeyes:

tim12232 02-19-2012 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMF (Post 18604404)
So you're only able to defend yourself with a gun? Sad. :upeyes:

stop the pissing contest boys! I am a shorter thinner built guy and if someone bigger than i came up and attacked I really dont have much in terms of self defense! That could be the case with G30mike? An elderly person wouldnt have much defense against a young thug! Your quoted post, is a fail imho:upeyes:

RussP 02-19-2012 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMF (Post 18604404)
So you're only able to defend yourself with a gun? Sad. :upeyes:

If that were the only option, yes.

However, in Virginia, a person 18 years old or older may carry a handgun for self defense, but only those 21 years old or older may carry concealed.

The only way persons between 18 and 21 can carry is openly.

I know of individuals who on principal choose not to pay the Commonwealth's fee and undergo the background check required for a Concealed Handgun Permit. They carry openly. When Virginia chooses to join the ranks of Constitutional Carry States, they will carry concealed.

In Virginia, open carry is the only way everyone who chooses to, if they are not otherwise prohibited from owning and possessing firearms, can carry a handgun for self defense.

G30Mike 02-19-2012 22:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMF (Post 18604404)
So you're only able to defend yourself with a gun? Sad. :upeyes:

I'm 30, 5'10 150lbs. Type 1 diabetic, and have had two severe leg injuries to my left leg. If I need to go hands with someone, I absolutely will. My brother in law and I have tumbled in the grass and he outweighs me by 80-100lbs. I've been in physical altercations more than once when I was younger.
OTOH, if its a few guys that want to cause me harm, as is not so uncommon nowadays, then yes, I would like to be able to have something more for defense. If open carryin a handgun can deter these jackasses from attempting to cause me harm, even better.
I've said it before and ill say it again, criminals go after weaklings. I want them to know for a fact that the gun on my waist indicates that I may be small, but I'm not weak and im not to be f'd with.
I'm not an attention whore in the sense that I want evreyone to think I'm some kind of regular badass, but I do want anyone that might have the intention to cause me or my family violence to think I am.


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