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-   -   Open Carry thoughts (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1401920)

Morris 02-15-2012 17:15

Quote:

Morris, you've been in many, more convoluted threads than this one...
True, but I'm getting too old to verbally wrastle with high schoolers.

SCSU74 02-15-2012 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoneyMaker (Post 18581870)
Ok seein this is being a big issue with the starbuck crazed group,What is your thoughts and reaction each time you get called on a man with gun call when it is to a place that does allow open carry? Do you ticket the person who made the call ? Do you ticket the store manager if he called and his store is not marked no open carry allowed?Why do the police make a man who is sitting at a table having dinner with his family get up and go outside to check him out?If it is legal to open carry then why do you go in and then bother this man ?

i personally don't understand the point of OC. There is absolutely 0 advantage over carrying concealed. The only time im going to OC is if im at work wearing a vest. Even when going to LE classes i choose to carry concealed. I'm not a big fan of making myself a target and hanging a gun on your hip legal or not isn't the best idea. It seems to me most people that are in the OC crowd are just wanting attention. Are you allowed to do it? sure. is it a good idea? i don't think so. Heres a very good link to OC issues:


MoneyMaker 02-15-2012 18:49

Thats my point i started but it seems others just wanna post TROLL about the subject,How many of them fat little show boats you think have a clue as to how to use weapon retention to save there life or to keep someone from taken there weapon?

G30Mike 02-15-2012 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCSU74 (Post 18584958)
i personally don't understand the point of OC. There is absolutely 0 advantage over carrying concealed. The only time im going to OC is if im at work wearing a vest. Even when going to LE classes i choose to carry concealed. I'm not a big fan of making myself a target and hanging a gun on your hip legal or not isn't the best idea. It seems to me most people that are in the OC crowd are just wanting attention. Are you allowed to do it? sure. is it a good idea? i don't think so. Heres a very good link to OC issues:

Open Carrier Discrimination - The Daily Show with Jon Stewart - 04/12/10 - Video Clip | Comedy [email]Central

This is the opinion of CCers everywhere. I actually believe OC works as a deterrent against them. Criminals prey on and attack the weak. If you have an obvious means to self defense, they will look elsewhere.
Why do uniformed police officers OC? I believe they do so for better access to their weapons and its by far more comfortable than CC, especially because of all the gear they have to wear.

I personally don't OC for the amusement of uploading youtube videos or the tacticool showoff factor a few OCers do. I do so because one, its a right that I like the choice to have, and to protect myself and my 16 month old son. If some oversensitive citizen is offended by it, well boo hoo for them. I don't like dogs, but I don't ask someone to cover their dog up while they're walking it on a leash. I bet id get a summons if I saw someone walking their pit bull or german shepherd and called 911 over it, even if the dog looked at me menacingly or barked at me.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions and I respect that, I would just rather have the choice to do it if I wanted.

RussP 02-15-2012 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoneyMaker (Post 18585235)
Thats my point i started but it seems others just wanna post TROLL about the subject,

Are you saying others are posting trolling posts, or they are calling you out as a troll?
Quote:

Originally Posted by MoneyMaker (Post 18585235)
How many of them fat little show boats

Here are the people posting in this thread.
  1. MoneyMaker
  2. G30Mike
  3. RussP
  4. trdvet
  5. whoflungdo
  6. Morris
  7. PuroMexicano
  8. SCSU74
  9. BlisteringSilence
  10. TheeBadOne
  11. Agent6-3/8
  12. firefighter4215
  13. Snowman92D
  14. CJStudent
  15. RocPO
  16. BULLRUNN
  17. DaBigBR
  18. SpringerTGO
  19. nikerret
  20. packsaddle
  21. JBUS
  22. WarCry
  23. gsp174
Who among them are the "fat little show boats"?
Quote:

Originally Posted by MoneyMaker (Post 18585235)
you think have a clue as to how to use weapon retention to save there life or to keep someone from taken there weapon?

A lot of the posters are law enforcement and have that kind of formal training. Again, which posters are the "fat little show boats"?

firefighter4215 02-15-2012 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCSU74 (Post 18584958)
i personally don't understand the point of OC. There is absolutely 0 advantage over carrying concealed.

OC does allow for slightly faster access to the weapon compared to CC. How much faster depends on the concealment method utilized. It is also slightly more comfortable for most people. For me, though, those advantages don't outweigh the disadvantages. I definitely don't buy the deterrent argument as a blanket statement. It may work sometimes. Other times it may cause the criminal to identify you as the first target in an ambush. Overall I'm for it being legal, but very rarely exercise that particular right.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Vigilant 02-15-2012 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheeBadOne (Post 18582355)
Don't feed the troll.

Do a search of the OP's recent history.

Don't feed it.

TBO beat me to it. 'Nuff said.

nikerret 02-15-2012 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morris (Post 18584802)
True, but I'm getting too old to verbally wrastle with high schoolers.

It's not even verbal. You have to type and they have to comprehend :wow:

Quote:

Originally Posted by RussP (Post 18585366)
Are you saying others are posting trolling posts, or they are calling you out as a troll?Here are the people posting in this thread.
  1. MoneyMaker
  2. G30Mike
  3. RussP
  4. trdvet
  5. whoflungdo
  6. Morris
  7. PuroMexicano
  8. SCSU74
  9. BlisteringSilence
  10. TheeBadOne
  11. Agent6-3/8
  12. firefighter4215
  13. Snowman92D
  14. CJStudent
  15. RocPO
  16. BULLRUNN
  17. DaBigBR
  18. SpringerTGO
  19. nikerret
  20. packsaddle
  21. JBUS
  22. WarCry
  23. gsp174
Who among them are the "fat little show boats"?A lot of the posters are law enforcement and have that kind of formal training. Again, which posters are the "fat little show boats"?

I believe he was referring to the previous poster who commented on the groups showing off their ability to carry an unloaded firearm. At least, I hope he was :dunno:

MoneyMaker 02-15-2012 19:28

Russ i meant the video that was presented,Geez you all want to find **** to point out about everything besides what the topic was,I have come to the conclusion you are some different folks with high strung attitudes,So long Have a good time pretending to be what you cant be.

nikerret 02-15-2012 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCSU74 (Post 18584958)
i personally don't understand the point of OC. There is absolutely 0 advantage over carrying concealed.

There are pros and cons to both methods of carry as much as there are pros and cons to different methods of concealed carry.

Brian Lee 02-15-2012 19:33

In many parts of Arizona we've evolved it to the point where the cops will simply ask the caller over the phone:

"Is he doing anything criminal, or is he just standing there acting normal?"

And if the answer is that the gun-toter is just sitting there eating lunch with his kids, the cops will then explain to the caller that it's perfectly legal and that if the guy goes postal, to call back then - otherwise, calm down and don't call us over nothing.

I think it's been working for us.

G30Mike 02-15-2012 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikerret (Post 18585439)
There are pros and cons to both methods of carry as much as there are pros and cons to different methods of concealed carry.

Agreed





Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Lee (Post 18585457)
In many parts of Arizona we've evolved it to the point where the cops will simply ask the caller over the phone:

"Is he doing anything criminal, or is he just standing there acting normal?"

And if the answer is that the gun-toter is just sitting there eating lunch with his kids, the cops will then explain to the caller that it's perfectly legal and that if the guy goes postal, to call back then - otherwise, calm down and don't call us over nothing.

I think it's been working for us.

Would be so nice if this were the case everywhere. Makes me want to sell my house and move on down.

WarCry 02-15-2012 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoneyMaker (Post 18585433)
Russ i meant the video that was presented,Geez you all want to find **** to point out about everything besides what the topic was,I have come to the conclusion you are some different folks with high strung attitudes,So long Have a good time pretending to be what you cant be.

Are you implying that those posting here as police officers aren't really police officers? Please tell me that's NOT what you're saying, because that would have to rank up there with one of the stupidest comments I've EVER seen.



And for the record, I am not, and never have claimed to be, a cop. I have nothing but the utmost respect for them and what they do, which doesn't APPEAR to be the case with you. I hope I'm wrong, but you're making my case pretty convincingly.

Vigilant 02-15-2012 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoneyMaker (Post 18585235)
Thats my point i started but it seems others just wanna post TROLL about the subject,How many of them fat little show boats you think have a clue as to how to use weapon retention to save there life or to keep someone from taken there weapon?

This has to be one of the most brilliant posts I have seen in all of Glocktalk. I'm impressed. Truly.

Merle, is that you, buddy? :upeyes:

razdog76 02-15-2012 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Lee (Post 18585457)
In many parts of Arizona we've evolved it to the point where the cops will simply ask the caller over the phone:

"Is he doing anything criminal, or is he just standing there acting normal?"

And if the answer is that the gun-toter is just sitting there eating lunch with his kids, the cops will then explain to the caller that it's perfectly legal and that if the guy goes postal, to call back then - otherwise, calm down and don't call us over nothing.

I think it's been working for us.

Unfortunately in other parts of the country, if the reporting party wants a Deputy to go check it out, then one is sent. When I get sent somewhere, and talk to someone a report is written.

At least I work in Ohio where I can detain an attention whore until he/she is identified (and checked for warrants). Maybe that is why it is not as popular here.:supergrin:

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoneyMaker (Post 18585433)
Russ i meant the video that was presented,Geez you all want to find **** to point out about everything besides what the topic was,I have come to the conclusion you are some different folks with high strung attitudes,So long Have a good time pretending to be what you cant be.

As typical with these threads, the OP doesn't like how it has progressed and ruffles his feathers.:popcorn:

RussP 02-15-2012 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoneyMaker (Post 18585433)
Russ i meant the video that was presented,Geez you all want to find **** to point out about everything besides what the topic was,I have come to the conclusion you are some different folks with high strung attitudes,So long Have a good time pretending to be what you cant be.

Absent you referencing/quoting a post, it is very difficult knowing what you're responding to.

You've said several times you are leaving the discussion. Are you serious this time?

AZLawDawg 02-15-2012 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by razdog76 (Post 18585639)
Unfortunately in other parts of the country, if the reporting party wants a Deputy to go check it out, then one is sent. When I get sent somewhere, and talk to someone a report is written.

This happens in AZ as well.

GumbyDammit 02-15-2012 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoneyMaker (Post 18581870)
Why do the police make a man who is sitting at a table having dinner with his family get up and go outside to check him out?If it is legal to open carry then why do you go in and then bother this man ?

Why do you jump to the conclusion that I would even respond to that call? If it's legal to OC and the patron is legally OCing in an OC legal place I would make a call back to the complainant and tell them to get their panties out of a twist and have a nice day. Now stop bothering me with contrived scenarios and let me finish having dinner with my family.

tim12232 02-15-2012 21:58

Unlocked yet? ok good!

If I have understood all this back and forth nonsense-ry, it seems the OP just wanted to know what LEO think and do when a OC'er is reported in an OC legal state? Do they talk to OC'er first? Do they detain OC'er first? Do they talk to the person that reported and called first?

I live in Charlotte, NC and NC is an OC state, I have done it a few times, but like most I am just not comfortable with all the stares. I also dont want to have to waste my time and the time of LEO's as Charlotte has enough crime as it is. But I myself would like to know, if I were called in on for OC and you showed up and saw that I am well dressed, semi to clean shaven "depends on time of year lol" and overall just minding my own business, how would you approach the subject "OC"?

Are LEO more upset if someones starts the whole am I being detained thing? Or are you ok with intelligent people asking about their rights and your duty performance?

Just honest ?'s that I think are inline with what the OP wanted.


Thanks,

Tim

WarCry 02-15-2012 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by tim12232 (Post 18586137)
Unlocked yet? ok good!

If I have understood all this back and forth nonsense-ry, it seems the OP just wanted to know what LEO think and do when a OC'er is reported in an OC legal state? Do they talk to OC'er first? Do they detain OC'er first? Do they talk to the person that reported and called first?

I live in Charlotte, NC and NC is an OC state, I have done it a few times, but like most I am just not comfortable with all the stares. I also dont want to have to waste my time and the time of LEO's as Charlotte has enough crime as it is. But I myself would like to know, if I were called in on for OC and you showed up and saw that I am well dressed, semi to clean shaven "depends on time of year lol" and overall just minding my own business, how would you approach the subject "OC"?

Are LEO more upset if someones starts the whole am I being detained thing? Or are you ok with intelligent people asking about their rights and your duty performance?

Just honest ?'s that I think are inline with what the OP wanted.


Thanks,

Tim

The problem with the original post isn't the CONCEPT. Asking what cops do if/when they get the call is one thing, but if you read the post, that's not what he's doing. What he's asking is WHO DO YOU BLAME for harassing the poor, misunderstood OCer. The questions, as their phrased, would fall under the category of a "push poll" in politics: leading the audience to the answer you want them to give.

Take a look again:


Quote:

Originally Posted by MoneyMaker (Post 18581870)
Do you ticket the person who made the call ? Do you ticket the store manager if he called and his store is not marked no open carry allowed?Why do the police make a man who is sitting at a table having dinner with his family get up and go outside to check him out? If it is legal to open carry then why do you go in and then bother this man ?


See, he sets the starting-point of the questions as it's the store's fault, that it's the cops fault, and that everyone is "bothering" this "poor, helpless victim." That's not in any way, shape, or form an impartial question.

Detectorist 02-15-2012 22:47

I, for one, have a hard time figuring what Moneymaker really wants. I've been through a bag of pop corn to no avail.

Which part of Missouri do you live, MM?

series1811 02-16-2012 03:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoneyMaker (Post 18581989)
.......Or get some Police Officer having a bad day and wanna beat you to the ground or god forbid draw on you just cause he dont know the law or is having a bad day!

You might be surprised at how few times we actually beat someone to the ground just because we are having a bad day.

xmanhockey7 02-16-2012 06:17

I think this should come down to the dispatch. Someone calls in a man with a gun (MWAG). The dispatcher should asked "Is this person threatening anyone? Is the gun in a holster? Does the person appear to be at least 18 (or whatever age is required in that state)?" A lot of times the answer is "Well the person is sitting there eating food. The gun is in a holster on his hip and he's minding his own business." At that point the dispatcher should inform the person that open carry is legal and the person is not breaking any laws.

xmanhockey7 02-16-2012 06:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCSU74 (Post 18584958)
i personally don't understand the point of OC. There is absolutely 0 advantage over carrying concealed. The only time im going to OC is if im at work wearing a vest. Even when going to LE classes i choose to carry concealed. I'm not a big fan of making myself a target and hanging a gun on your hip legal or not isn't the best idea. It seems to me most people that are in the OC crowd are just wanting attention. Are you allowed to do it? sure. is it a good idea? i don't think so. Heres a very good link to OC issues:

You seem to not understand the view of open carriers. For those who open carry it is not about getting the attention from people it's about deterring someone who would want to pick them as a target. Criminals tend to not mess with people who they know to be armed. Saying someone who open carries only does it for the attention is like saying someone who carries concealed only does it so they can shoot an unsuspecting criminal. Is either statement true? Generally speaking, no.

WarCry 02-16-2012 06:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 (Post 18586816)
You seem to not understand the view of open carriers. For those who open carry it is not about getting the attention from people it's about deterring someone who would want to pick them as a target. Criminals tend to not mess with people who they know to be armed. Saying someone who open carries only does it for the attention is like saying someone who carries concealed only does it so they can shoot an unsuspecting criminal. Is either statement true? Generally speaking, no.

Actually, even in your comment, you admit they do it for attention, though it falls into the semantics category.

As you said, some of them do it get the attention of the bad guys that might think twice about messing with them if they can see it. Others do it to get the attention of the media, the "shock factor", but both are actually doing it for SOME sort of attention.

I'm not making a judgment. Just saying that there IS attention-seeking involved. I would never open carry, even if it were legal, but that's my choice.


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