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-   -   Purse gun that packs a punch (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1394480)

writwing 01-14-2012 07:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by IndianaMatt (Post 18427539)
Every girl I've shown my PPK/S to loves it.

http://www.discountgunsales.com/imag...altherppks.jpg

Chicks seem to dig them. Good stopping power and small enough to purse.

Terrible trigger and a lot of recoil for the caliber.

Go LCR. Light weight, great trigger, reliable. They even have'm with pink grips.

Dogbite 01-14-2012 07:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by M&P15T (Post 18429362)
Snubbys are terrible, especially for smaller, lighter people. Even in .38SPL, the recoil is awful. .357MAG? Just stupid uncomfortable. Autos absorb much of the recoil energy to cycle the action, so they're much more comfortable to shoot. Most autos will also have better sights than snubbys to boot.

I was at the range a few weeks ago, and there was a husband and wife out shooting their snubby. The wife was having less fun than a root canal, and even the husband could barely hit the broadside of a barn at 10 yards.

I cannot understand why anyone suggests sunbbys for new shooters/CCWers, when there are so many better autos out there. If we want more people to get into shooting, they need to have better suggestions from experienced shooters. They can't go to the range the first time with their new snubby they bought on some idiot's suggestion, and find the experience horrible. The experience will turn them off to shooting, and they won't continue shooting and recruiting more people into shooting.

For Christ's sake, can we please stop suggesting awful firearms to new shooters?

This is a very good point, but sometimes (and you can never tell until a woman grabs the slide) she cant even pull the slide back a little bit. Even with me telling her to push with one hand while pulling with the other. I do try to show them a 4 inch model 10 or something then though..

purrrfect 10 01-14-2012 07:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by M&P15T (Post 18429497)
Nope, you're wrong. You could not possibly be more wrong. Firearms instructors are absolutely, positively the wrong people to ask on this topic....which is why about the only thing you are correct about in your post, is that 95% of firearms instructors would recommend a snubby for a new female shooter/ccwer.

I have taught several females to shoot, and I'm 100% sure that the worst person to ask for suggestions on a pistol are experienced male shooters. 99% of them just push into a new female shooters hands what they think is the right answer.

"Here's a .38/.357 snubby, try it out."

BOOM-miss....BOOM...miss......BOOM......miss.

"Ewww, I don't like that, it hurts to shoot. I'm done."

Yeah, that's the right idea.:upeyes::upeyes:

You seem to keep going on and on like you know everything, so what do you suggest. You are not still mad because you lost your first game in the playoffs are you :rofl:

hogship 01-14-2012 07:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by faawrenchbndr (Post 18429477)
If someone ONLY shoots once a year, he/she will not fair very well
in s life or death situation.

This is where you are wrong, faawrenchbender.

Some inexperienced firearms owners will defend themselves with wisdom and authority, who never shoot their firearms. Some of them will fair better than others who shoot regularly and have all the "training" and credentials. To make such a "blanket statement", is not very much in tune with humanity.

.....but, to be fair, your statement is very true for a much higher percentage of non-shooters, than those who shoot regularly.

Training and practice is certainly helpful.......but, when it comes right down to the nitty gritty.......it's the character of the individual that makes the difference between doing the necessary under extreme pressure......and failure.

ooc

TN.Frank 01-14-2012 07:48

Picked up the latest issue of Gun World magazine because it had an article on the S&W M638 in it in 327 Federal Mag., got it more to read about the ctg. then about the gun since these little S&W snubs are uber expensive. Anyway, this little ctg. is a real power house that easily beats out the +P 38 Spl while having less recoil then the 357Mag. IIRC from the 1 7/8" bbl they were getting over 1300 fps and 391 ft/lbs from a 100gr JHP bullet. Bud's has the Taurus snubs at a close out price of $260 bucks and you can get a Charter Arms or Ruger in this great little ctg. too. Also a big plus is that you get 6 shots instead of just the 5 that you'd get in a 38 or 357. Give it a close look and I'm sure you'll like what you see.

grmnracing 01-14-2012 07:49

From what I have been hearing the .380 round is adequate for defense. The LCP loaded with good quality hollow points should get the job done. For a purse gun I believe the LCP is a great contender. As small as the gun is I'm sure a women could conceal it on the body even wearing fitted clothing. J-frames are nice but you have to consider the width of the cylinder.


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

M&P15T 01-14-2012 08:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by purrrfect 10 (Post 18429524)
You seem to keep going on and on like you know everything, so what do you suggest. You are not still mad because you lost your first game in the playoffs are you :rofl:

The Lions?? It's been years since they did as well as this year, so I'm actually quite happy.

I have to keep this short, because I'm at work and have a very busy day.

I apologise for calling (collectively) males idiots when discussing firearms needs for women, but it's the truth.

I sell kitchens and bathrooms. I'm a kitchen design that sells complete jobs incuding all materials and labor. You can imagine the gender make-up of the clients I work with, who ends up being the decision makers. I have 17 years of professional experience (frustration) in working with women in making very large and detailed purchase decisions. I have learned through years of trials and tribulation, how to work with females of all ages, races, socio and economic backgrounds. I have developed and refined techniques on how to sell females, and it has taken years to get to where I'm at.

The best idea for getting females into shooting is to not try and tell them what they should like, want, use or buy. This is a losing proposition from the get-go....what we in my business call a "non-starter". Spread out before them a selection of different pistols, including autos, revolvers, anything you have or can get your hands on. Lay them out on a table un-loaded, and let them load and fire each one to experience how they are different.

Then let THEM choose. If 10% were to voluntarily choose snubbys, I would be shocked. We as men have to stop taking our experiences, our wants and needs, our likes, and expecting women to make the same decisions.

Want to know how bad we men are doing with females and shooting? Look around here....look in this thread. Not a lot of replies/perspectives from the female point of view, are there? Nope, just a bunch of us male idiots giving each other idiotic advice.

Remember how I said I was busy today? I've been working with a 60-something balding, over-weight, post-menopausal woman, whose husband I have not even met, on her 45K bathroom project, and I'm closing it today. You have know idea how much fun it has been working with her.:supergrin:

TN.Frank 01-14-2012 08:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by M&P15T (Post 18429642)
Then let THEM choose. If 10% were to chose snubbys, I would be shocked. We as men have to stop attempting to take our experiences, our wants and needs, our likes, and expecting women to make the same decisions.

Hey, now that sounds like an idea. My wife loves revolvers and totally hates semi-autos. If I were to get her a Ruger LCP she'd not carry it and would be reluctant to shoot it since she's just not comfortable with a semi.
Now, knowing that she likes revolvers I bookmarked a few the other day for her to look at. The first one was a Taurus snub with a 2" bbl. She didn't like the shorter barrel even though I thought she would. When I showed her the Ruger with the 3 1/16" bbl. she liked it because it had a longer barrel, to figure. Best thing is take her to a gun shop, let her get a feel for a few different guns and explain the good and bad points of each. Then, let her pick so she'll feel like she's been part of the process and that way she'll be happy with the choice.

P.S.
Still think a revolver would be best and still think the 327 Federal Mag beats out the 38spl +P and 357Mag in a small revolver. :tongueout:

M&P15T 01-14-2012 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by TN.Frank (Post 18429670)
Hey, now that sounds like an idea. My wife loves revolvers and totally hates semi-autos. If I were to get her a Ruger LCP she'd not carry it and would be reluctant to shoot it since she's just not comfortable with a semi.
Now, knowing that she likes revolvers I bookmarked a few the other day for her to look at. The first one was a Taurus snub with a 2" bbl. She didn't like the shorter barrel even though I thought she would. When I showed her the Ruger with the 3 1/16" bbl. she liked it because it had a longer barrel, to figure. Best thing is take her to a gun shop, let her get a feel for a few different guns and explain the good and bad points of each. Then, let her pick so she'll feel like she's been part of the process and that way she'll be happy with the choice.

P.S.
Still think a revolver would be best and still think the 327 Federal Mag beats out the 38spl +P and 357Mag in a small revolver. :tongueout:

You're (awesome) wife liking revolvers is great, but most females won't enjoy a .357MAG/hot .38SPCL loaded snubby. I'm glad to hear you've gotten your wife into shooting.

I'd like to add, that it's actually better to not tell them anything (good & bad points) other than how to load and shoot each pistol, let them ask the questions.

Did you start her off with the 4" compensated Ruger .454 Alaskan?:rofl:

Gunshine 01-14-2012 08:39

It's obvious that 15T feels very strongly about the snubby thing. A simple try before you buy might be a
good idea OP.

knoxrocks222 01-14-2012 08:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdsn969 (Post 18427460)
this looks like a fun (expensive) little gun :whistling:

http://heizerfirearms.com/


AHHH THE TACTICAL BULL MOOSE HAS RETURNED!!!!!:rofl:

drew4691 01-14-2012 08:50

I'd vote PM9, it is smaller than the 26 but still has good sites before you get into the mouse guns with crappy sites.

purrrfect 10 01-14-2012 09:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by M&P15T (Post 18429642)
The Lions?? It's been years since they did as well as this year, so I'm actually quite happy.

Want to know how bad we men are doing with females and shooting? Look around here....look in this thread. Not a lot of replies/perspectives from the female point of view, are there? Nope, just a bunch of us male idiots giving each other idiotic advice.

" It's been years since they did as well as this year, so I'm actually quite happy."

You would be, I'm really surprised your wife let you watch the game.

As to your last message to all us fellow Glockers? I think the Oprah forum is better suited for you, I would think there is so much more you could relate to.
There is so much experience among the shooter here, I tip my hat. I didn't see where anyone was saying a must buy but merly giving suggestion perhaps from what their experience and wife liked, J frame can be the perfect weapon, snubby or semi, boils down to shoot ability and feel for every one.
Well I need to get back to work..........On my new reload bench.

G31 01-14-2012 09:38

The .380 Auto will certainly be adequate for a defensive role, no question about it. However, it is not necessarily the ideal solution, due to less penetration and the ability to deflect easier than something 9mm or better. I would not count on the .380 to be very effective after penetrating a hard barrier, but for a one-on-one encounter at arms-length or so, it will work fine.

Having said that, consider the purpose for this weapon. She needs a small, lightweight firearm that will not be easily detected at work, and that can get her out of a pinch. I would choose the G26 over anything else, but she doesn't think it will work, so no-go on that. Maybe a Kahr PM9 would work, though I would prefer the metal-framed MK9 (less recoil, more comfort, but not my decision). Before selecting ANYTHING, I would do a search for comparison pictures to a G26. Many thinner guns are actually taller and longer than the Glock, making the thickness the least of her concealment problems in a purse.

Quote:

Originally Posted by purrrfect 10 (Post 18429524)
You seem to keep going on and on like you know everything, so what do you suggest. You are not still mad because you lost your first game in the playoffs are you :rofl:

I don't automatically assume that someone feels they know everything, just because they make an accurate comment about one aspect of a subject. A person can know that a small, lightweight revolver in a decent caliber has significantly more recoil than a semi-auto in a similar caliber. You don't have to be a certified expert in a field to know what you're talking about.

I tend to agree with his idea. I had an all-steel Taurus 85 .38 spl revolver that kicked more than my Glock 20 does when shooting 200 gr. XTPs @ 1200 fps. This was the case with all rounds, but more so with 158 gr. loads. I've never fired a snub revolver in .38 or better that wasn't punishing after a box or two. Of course, there are some that are much worse (S&W .357 snub comes to mind). Additionally, the trigger on every revolver I've ever fired is way too long and/or heavy for most people to enjoy. There are plenty of DAO autos that have similar triggers, and people avoid them like the plague, but will recommend a revolver in a heart beat...I don't really get it.

On the flip side, a revolver is the only sensible choice for someone with little-to-no mechanical ability, a handicap or strength issue, or no desire to become proficient. As we all know, many gun owners fall into this category. I do feel it is a fallacy to assume that every new shooter, particularly a female, is not able to understand the aspects of semi-auto operation. A person who can drive a car - something that is much more complex than operating any firearm - or go to work everyday and use critical thinking skills can figure out how to rack a slide and keep their thumbs out of the way. It's easy! As the OP said, his GF shoots his Glock just fine. My wife prefers autos, but gets harassed by every gun shop employee or "gun expert" over 40 years old to buy a snubby .38. I disagree 100%, and feel that this is an old-school, very outdated method of training. You see less and less of this as the old timers disappear, and the younger folks take over.

4 glocks 01-14-2012 09:39

When I met my GF she had just bought a S&W 442 and put CT grips on it.
One of our first dates was shooting and she loves to do it. The only gun she ever shot was a 22 rifle.
She mastered the 442 very fast. If I would have told her she can not shoot a snub maybe the results would have been different.
Now she has shot a Glock 26, Ruger service six .357, LCP, Rem. 870 and 1100, Colt AR15, Ruger mini 14.

I will say she is a natural shooter and sometimes her groups are smaller that mine. I would say let her make the choice of the gun and support her choice.
I would look at Ruger LC9, LCP, or S&W 642/442.

manonmars 01-14-2012 10:12

I have sponsored 4 classes for women/seniors in the recent past.

Many women were new to shooting, and had just bought a new 38 snubbie/airweight because the gun shop recommended it.

Believe me, women don't like airweights...or snubbies! (I don't even like them).

I was approached later by 2 & ask if I could help them sell their new gun......(38's).

Then, a month ago, I took a 25 year old girl who weighs about 120# to the range. She had shot a g-19 twice (2 shots).

I brought my g-19, g-23, g26, and g-30. I also brought a S&W model 19, and a Taurus Tracker 357 (4"), along with a Ruger 22 & Taurus 22.

She ended up shooting and liking the S&W the best!

Go figger'.

Let THEM make the decision!!!

M&P15T 01-14-2012 10:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by purrrfect 10 (Post 18429967)
" It's been years since they did as well as this year, so I'm actually quite happy."

You would be, I'm really surprised your wife let you watch the game.

As to your last message to all us fellow Glockers? I think the Oprah forum is better suited for you, I would think there is so much more you could relate to.
There is so much experience among the shooter here, I tip my hat. I didn't see where anyone was saying a must buy but merly giving suggestion perhaps from what their experience and wife liked, J frame can be the perfect weapon, snubby or semi, boils down to shoot ability and feel for every one.
Well I need to get back to work..........On my new reload bench.

I think you're poking fun at me, but your spelling, punctuation and grammar is making it difficult to be sure. Something about the Lions....something about Oprah.....the rest is gibberish.

ithaca_deerslayer 01-14-2012 10:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caladan (Post 18427477)
A hammerless revolver such as an S&W 442 will be lighter in weight than a G26, but it will not be smaller. The footprint is shaped differently, but length/width/height will be about the same. And too, the only ones that will pack a substantially bigger punch than a good +p 9mm HP load would be the small .357's, which are rather punishing to shoot.

You might consider the small 9mm and .40 semi-autos, which are substantially smaller than a G26. Good modern hollow-point loads in these two calibers pack plenty of punch for self-defense. The Beretta Nano has just become my favorite of this group, but other very good choices are the Kahr CM9 or the slightly larger CW9, and the Sig P290.

The 642 is a lot smaller than the G26. But not as small as a LCP, of course. For similarity in size, the 642 should be compared to the Kahr PM9.

MLittle 01-14-2012 10:41

I know the G26 isn't a "tiny" pistol, but to me it really does feel very similar to a J frame in the pocket and I have both. There are a lot of single stack 9mm's out there, but I'll take my Glock which has never had a failure of any kind over any of them. And I favor it over my J frame due to twice the capacity. I think the G26 would make a PERFECT purse pistol with flat 10 round mag.

M&P15T 01-14-2012 10:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by G31 (Post 18429977)
I had an all-steel Taurus 85 .38 spl revolver that kicked more than my Glock 20 does when shooting 200 gr. XTPs @ 1200 fps. This was the case with all rounds, but more so with 158 gr. loads. I've never fired a snub revolver in .38 or better that wasn't punishing after a box or two. Of course, there are some that are much worse (S&W .357 snub comes to mind). Additionally, the trigger on every revolver I've ever fired is way too long and/or heavy for most people to enjoy. There are plenty of DAO autos that have similar triggers, and people avoid them like the plague, but will recommend a revolver in a heart beat...I don't really get it.

My wife prefers autos, but gets harassed by every gun shop employee or "gun expert" over 40 years old to buy a snubby .38. I disagree 100%, and feel that this is an old-school, very outdated method of training. You see less and less of this as the old timers disappear, and the younger folks take over.

I think it's the "old timers" and their younger followers that keep perpetuating the idea that a snubby is the best "for wimmin folk". Once someone posts about how "firearms experts" or "firearms trainers" recommend one thing or another, I tune them out. If you're on this forum, been shooting for a while, and you can't figure out what works for you from your own experiences, you're too lost to help.


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