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-   -   Mas Ayoob G21 vs G30 (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1323189)

firemedic1343 02-26-2011 13:21

Mas Ayoob G21 vs G30
 
I know we've discussed this before. But I have a more pointed question.

In your experience has this reasoning been comparable in the G20 and G29?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mas Ayoob
CDR, there is the occasional firearms platform that defies the conventional wisdom and the Glock 30 is one of those.

I've seen the G21 do 1.5" or a bit less at 25 yards for 5 shots, off the bench, but I've seen the G30 do UNDER 1.0".

If you ask in one of the general forums in GT, you'll see the same with the 9mm Glock 26 versus the 9mm full size Glock 17, and I for one have certainly seen the same with the snubby Glock 27 in .40 versus the Glock 22 full size in the same .40 S&W chambering.

The reason seems to be twofold. First, the shorter barrel gun has a relatively more rigid barrel, when you measure width vis-a-vis length. Second, and perhaps more important I think, is that the G30 in .45 ACP and the Baby Glocks in standard frame size have the double captive spring design in their recoil springs. This seems to better guarantee that the bullet is past the muzzle before the mechanism begins to unlock. That gives a more consistent barrel alignment shot to shot, in relation to the plane of the sights that are aiming the gun.

There is another gunmaker (which will remain nameless here) who made a 9mm double action auto that generally was doing well if it shot a 2.5" group at 25 yards out of the box. However, the company offered a variation for twice or more the price that did an inch at 25 yards. The guys at the "custom" section of the factory told me a big part of that was a different recoil spring assembly that guaranteed the bullet would be out of the muzzle before it began to unlock. Those guns used to go about $1500 retail. You get the same effect in the Glock 30 at no extra charge, with every standard G30 that leaves the factory.

As they say on the Internet, "Just sayin' ..."

The G36 has a narrower, lighter slide than the G30, and this may be why I for one have never seen a G36 shoot as accurately as a G30, on the average.

Just one guy's opinion,

Mas


MinervaDoe 02-26-2011 14:59

His assertion is that you could bench rest the pistol and see the subcompact Glock outperform the standard size Glock.

I wish I could screw both pistols into a ransom rest and settle the issue, but shooting freehand, I do have to give a big edge to my G20 over my G29. That's not scientific. That's just me.

I compare the guns side by side every time I shoot 10mm and I do shoot better groups with my G20 SF than I do with my G29SF. The difference is slight though.

I don't ever bench rest my pistols, so I have nothing to compare to his test. I don't plan to take the time to test this. If I did end up shooting better groups benchresting with my G29, who is to say it wasn't from the reduced sight radius? Now, if I had a ransom rest, that would be worth investing 50 rounds in a test. .... remove the human factor, that's what I say. :supergrin:

firemedic1343 02-26-2011 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by MinervaDoe (Post 16949577)
I wish I could screw both pistols into a ransom rest and settle the issue, but shooting freehand, I do have to give a big edge to my G20 over my G29. That's not scientific. That's just me.

Excellent. You own both and you feel the G20 has the edge. I'm not really looking for scientific, your response is appreciated~!

MinervaDoe 02-26-2011 16:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by firemedic1343 (Post 16949640)
Excellent. You own both and you feel the G20 has the edge. I'm not really looking for scientific, your response is appreciated~!

I do appreciate Mr. Ayoob posting here and I don't doubt that he has seen a G29 outshoot a G20 while benchrested.

At the same time, I can't shoot a freehand 25 yard group this tight with my G29 SF (only my G20 SF). I believe that this is a 30-35 round group.
http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/...nier25Yard.jpg

I would like to see someone test this in a ransom rest though. It seems like that would settle the issue once and for all.

I do think the G20 handles way better than the G29. As far as a follow on shot, the G20 wins hands down (IMHO of course).

Buski 02-26-2011 18:26

Firemedic
 
My Glock 29s are more accurate than my Glock 20s. They are also faster out of the holster (shorter) & they cycle faster (faster on the follow-up shot).

I own 3.

Good shooting

firemedic1343 02-27-2011 00:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buski (Post 16950739)
My Glock 29s are more accurate than my Glock 20s. They are also faster out of the holster (shorter) & they cycle faster (faster on the follow-up shot).

I own 3.

Good shooting

Finally, a vote for the G29. You have a low post count, idk if I should believe you...the Ranger avatar makes me want to lean towards believing you may be credible :supergrin:

MinervaDoe 02-27-2011 09:53

:supergrin: My G29 is accurate enough that the hypothetical, "Which is more accurate" question is quite valid. There's only one way to settle this.

http://media.midwayusa.com/productim...252/252710.jpg

deeHKman 02-27-2011 10:07

First i respect The Mas's opinion completely. I only have a G20sf and could not imagine a 29 that i could shoot better. I wear XL gloves so the compact framed glocks are as small as i buy. The rest would settle the question and give a answer but some would still not be swayed. Ammo used, distances shot then for some the debate is un-winable, Mas has some very valid points no doubt.

MinervaDoe 02-27-2011 10:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by deeGman (Post 16954051)
The rest would settle the question and give a answer but some would still not be swayed. Ammo used, distances shot then for some the debate is un-winable, Mas has some very valid points no doubt.

Yup, I didn't want to cloud the issue, but I'm still searching for the ideal ammo for my G29. I don't expect to find it this year, as I've got a few other projects going on.

Buski 02-27-2011 14:05

Buski
 
Do a google search on Jay Shebuski.

-Master rated GSSF & IDPA shooter.
-US Army, retired
-Published
-Currently employed by FN manufacturing as a "Weapons tester".

The Glock 29 "Is" more accurate than the 20; OR, perhaps all of the pistols manufactured by Glock.

How 'bout this, I'll shoot a glock 29 @ the Morganton NC GSSF match, 16 April. I'll shoot in the Masters category & the Masters Major Sub.

Anyone w/a 20 or any other Glock up for the challenge?:supergrin:

Good shooting

firemedic1343 02-27-2011 14:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buski (Post 16955152)
How 'bout this, I'll shoot a glock 29 @ the Morganton NC GSSF match, 16 April. I'll shoot in the Masters category & the Masters Major Sub.

Anyone w/a 20 or any other Glock up for the challenge?:supergrin:

Good shooting

Now that's what I'm talking about!

:cheers:

MinervaDoe 02-27-2011 15:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buski (Post 16955152)
How 'bout this, I'll shoot a glock 29 @ the Morganton NC GSSF match, 16 April. I'll shoot in the Masters category & the Masters Major Sub.

I'm hoping you post a youtube video. :supergrin:

Can you recommend a favorite G29 load for accuracy?
You could save me a lot of range and reloading time.

deeHKman 02-27-2011 15:17

+1 Google proofs nothing but a video is priceless.:whistling:
GT has some very, very good shooters one in particular i really hope he takes this "prideful" statement seriously. ;)


Quote:

Originally Posted by MinervaDoe (Post 16955489)
I'm hoping you post a youtube video. :supergrin:

Can you recommend a favorite G29 load for accuracy?
You could save me a lot of range and reloading time.


deeHKman 02-27-2011 15:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by MinervaDoe (Post 16954089)
Yup, I didn't want to cloud the issue, but I'm still searching for the ideal ammo for my G29. I don't expect to find it this year, as I've got a few other projects going on.

When you find it let me know. I just cannot find a local 29 to see how it fits my hands. I am not fond of ordering blind. Sure would be a nice carry piece. Good Luck with your projects, :wavey:

MinervaDoe 02-27-2011 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by deeGman (Post 16955563)
+1 Google proofs nothing but a video is priceless.:whistling:
GT has some very, very good shooters one in particular i really hope he takes this "prideful" statement seriously. ;)

Oh no, I believe that he is who he says he is.
I would just like to see a video of a fellow Glocktalker shooting.
If you look up his scores, they are impressive.

I'm still trying to get my G29 bucked out, so if I can find out what ammo he likes, it might save me a half dozen trips to the range.

deeHKman 02-27-2011 16:14

Oh MD i have no doubt about all the google stuff at all i'm just joking around. I would and might go to see some matches soon. A video would be very cool. I would also like some info. about choice ammo weights and what nots for the 10mm. But there are members on here that i have seen videos of that amazed me . Hope your projects are indeed enjoyable,
David :supergrin:


Quote:

Originally Posted by MinervaDoe (Post 16955758)
Oh no, I believe that he is who he says he is.
I would just like to see a video of a fellow Glocktalker shooting.
If you look up his scores, they are impressive.

I'm still trying to get my G29 bucked out, so if I can find out what ammo he likes, it might save me a half dozen trips to the range.


MinervaDoe 02-27-2011 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buski (Post 16955152)
The Glock 29 "Is" more accurate than the 20; OR, perhaps all of the pistols manufactured by Glock.

Do you attribute this to the double capture spring, or some other design feature of the G29?

Buski 02-27-2011 17:10

Miner
 
Just guessing, referencing what I've read (ie I am not an engineer): barrel length short/stiff, robust slide weight, double recoil spring design, .40/10mm bullet design/weight selection.

Good shooting

deeHKman 02-27-2011 17:38

Mas is probaby correct but i see the likes of Sevigny and some very young members of Team Glock use the 34 makes me wonder. I could ask Angus Hobdell but he is a CZ guy whom i really appreciate all his help thru the years. I sure would like to see Sevigny take various Glocks thru his paces. Hickok45 has a very informative video about accuracy which is a very subjective word.

I like my Glocks but my CZ's and HK's are my long time fav.s also. The USP uses a dual very robust recoil spring and are known for accuracy which adds to Mas's theory.

No dis-respect at all to Buski i'm very happy he shoots Glocks and enjoys the sport of shooting and certain he is very good at it. I sure would have really enjoyed working for most any firearm Co. plus i live in SC myself. But very thankful for all my years of Reliability Testing, Lab and Quality Control from MainFrames to BMW's a Blessed Life/Career.


Quote:

Originally Posted by firemedic1343 (Post 16949206)
I know we've discussed this before. But I have a more pointed question.

In your experience has this reasoning been comparable in the G20 and G29?


Buski 02-28-2011 16:32

DeeG
 
Your living in SC?

Do you shoot @ any of the IDPA, steel challenge, USPSA matches across the State?

..if so, I may run into you.

Will be shooting the NRA TPC match, in Anderson, SC May 14th. I try to hit the matches @ Mid-Carolina, the Central Carolina Club & Greenville.

Hope to see you out there.

Good shooting


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