That a bunch of gun owners are so quick to convict...
Posted 07-11-2011 at 06:45 by RussP
Interesting, very interesting...
Quote:
Originally Posted by barbedwiresmile
Reading this thread, it's easy to see how lynch mobs came into being.
The day this verdict was read was a great day for America, even for someone as skeptical as me. Why? It illustrated that the state, which can bring vast resources against the accused, is still held in some check by the systems designed to hold it in check.
That a bunch of gun owners are so quick to convict another American based on what they heard on the news, with no first hand knowledge of the situation, and simply accept the picture painted by the talking heads in the talking box, is frightening.
Amazing Weaver got even the paltry "justice" he did. And no surprise why the Davidians got none. Mention a child and our emotion quickly trumps our gray matter. We believe the talking box that lies to us about nearly everything else and the state that lies and steals from us daily. Then, the verdict is reached, and some still call for the state to go after her for money? WTF?
Shame.
The day this verdict was read was a great day for America, even for someone as skeptical as me. Why? It illustrated that the state, which can bring vast resources against the accused, is still held in some check by the systems designed to hold it in check.
That a bunch of gun owners are so quick to convict another American based on what they heard on the news, with no first hand knowledge of the situation, and simply accept the picture painted by the talking heads in the talking box, is frightening.
Amazing Weaver got even the paltry "justice" he did. And no surprise why the Davidians got none. Mention a child and our emotion quickly trumps our gray matter. We believe the talking box that lies to us about nearly everything else and the state that lies and steals from us daily. Then, the verdict is reached, and some still call for the state to go after her for money? WTF?
Shame.
Total Comments 5
Comments
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Let me replace a few words...Quote:Reading this thread, it's easy to see how lynch mobs came into being.
The day this verdict was read was a great day for America, even for someone as skeptical as me. Why? It illustrated that the state, which can bring vast resources against the accused, is still held in some check by the systems designed to hold it in check.
That a bunch of gun owners are so quick to convict another American who is a cop based on what they heard on the news, with no first hand knowledge of the situation, and simply accept the picture painted by the talking heads in the talking box, is frightening.
Amazing Weaver got even the paltry "justice" he did. And no surprise why the Davidians got none. Mention achildcop and our emotion quickly trumps our gray matter. We believe the talking box that lies to us about nearly everything else and the state that lies and steals from us daily. Then, the verdict is reached, and some still call for the state to go afterherthe cop and department for money? WTF?
Shame.Posted 07-11-2011 at 06:53 by RussP 
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Response...Quote:Originally Posted by barbedwiresmile
Yes, the supposed irony is not missed. I am quick to judge the state: monopolizer of coercive force. Not quick to judge the private individual, subject, to one degree or another, to the whims of state. Our systems were set up to give private individuals the benefit of the doubt - to protect them from the nature of the state. Agents of the state, executors of its will, do not receive such benefit. Quite the contrary. In this regard, justice was served in this case. You, on the other hand, appear to give the the state the benefit of the doubt. This is seen not only in your sub forum but in your recent heightened interest in PI. It's a position that our Founders would have likely found dangerous and certainly would have resulted in different foundational philosophies of government and justice than those we started out with. Sadly, you are not alone in that approach. We can discuss the broader issues further in PI if you are so inclined.
Posted 07-12-2011 at 07:10 by RussP
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True.Quote:Originally Posted by barbedwiresmile
Yes, the supposed irony is not missed. I am quick to judge the state: monopolizer of coercive force. Not quick to judge the private individual, subject, to one degree or another, to the whims of state. Our systems were set up to give private individuals the benefit of the doubt - to protect them from the nature of the state. Agents of the state, executors of its will, do not receive such benefit. Quite the contrary. In this regard, justice was served in this case.Are you taking my insistence on the discovery and analysis of ALL facts before rendering judgement for giving someone "the benefit of the doubt."? If so, you are wrong.Quote:Originally Posted by barbedwiresmile
You, on the other hand, appear to give the the state the benefit of the doubt. This is seen not only in your sub forum but in your recent heightened interest in PI.I believe you are mistaken.Quote:Originally Posted by barbedwiresmile
It's a position that our Founders would have likely found dangerous and certainly would have resulted in different foundational philosophies of government and justice than those we started out with.There's nothing to discuss, unless you simply do not believe in the importance of viewing the total collection of facts before condemning someone.Quote:Originally Posted by barbedwiresmile
Sadly, you are not alone in that approach. We can discuss the broader issues further in PI if you are so inclined.
Posted 07-12-2011 at 07:11 by RussP
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I liked this exchange:Quote:Originally Posted by Dragoon44
In other words if someone is employed by the state they are no longer an individual or a citizen, they are a faceless dehumanized cog in the machine of the state. Unworthy of any of the considerations given any other citizen.Quote:Originally Posted by barbedwiresmile
In as much as they are on the clock and enforcing the diktats of state, yes, that is a broadly accurate characterization of my positions.
"Unworthy" is a bit of a loaded word. It is simply that I do not give them the same considerations. Just as I am treated in kind when on the sharp side of the sword of state. History suggests - or rather, illustrates - that, when wielding this sword and donning appropriate costume, agents of the state do not give private individuals the same considerations they would ordinarily give another human being.Posted 07-12-2011 at 07:16 by RussP
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A very good example of part of the reasoning of barbedwiresmile comes to us in the form of Gunrunner/Fast and Furious. The ATF and Holder are stonewalling Congress when they are merely employees of the citizens of this country. How can the ATF refuse to cooperate with the investigation by Congress? The ATF agents that had the will to uphold their oath of office and expose this travesty should be given promotions, not harassment. This administration is a perfect example of the fact that power corrupts. The corruption goes all the way to the top, and many people are so brainwahed that they're willing to overlook the facts. No matter how much Obama dislikes it, the Constitution is still the highest law in the land, until the Supremes legislate from the bench. One should be quick to judge the state, as the state should be held to a higher standard, yet the increase of corruption rises at an ever increasing rate.
Posted 07-14-2011 at 13:48 by billy396
